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Damiensdolls

Can we urge doll companies to use sustainable alternatives to vinyl?

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Damiensdolls

I have a huge love for vinyl dolls, but to be honest I feel a lot of guilt and anxiety knowing that the vinyls and plastics that make up the dolls I love are harmful to the environment. They are non biodegradable, pollute the air when burned, and are usually not recyclable. I hate knowing that my decision to buy these beautiful dolls will negatively impact the world that future generations will have to deal with. However, I feel like it doesn’t have to be this way. I think we can make a change, so here’s my proposal:

Admittedly, it is very difficult for the individual consumer to make an impact on environmental issues since large companies are the largest contributors to pollution by far. However, I think relatively smaller companies like Smart Doll are much more likely to listen to us than huge conglomerates like Apple and Coca Cola. So, if we each contact/email the support services of the doll companies we love, they may actually hear us and consider using a more sustainable alternative to PVC!

CONTACT SMART DOLL:

https://info.smartdoll.jp/en/posts/support
 

CONTACT OBITSU PLASTICS:

https://obitsu.co.jp/contact_us/form_customer

 

Please use the contact services of these companies to urge them to use biodegradable, recyclable, or otherwise environmentally sustainable materials!

You can do more research on examples of alternative materials so you can make more specific proposals to them, or simply convey the sentiment that it is time to look for a better way to produce dolls. Also, feel free to use your social media platforms to raise awareness of this issue and urge others to take action as well!

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Selenae
Posted (edited)

 Gonna play devil's advocate here. It's not like any of these companies can magically pull new, bio-degradable formulas out of thin air. Likewise, the R/D involved is both lengthy and expensive, and likely not an undertaking Volks, Smartdoll, or Obitsu have the funds to tackle. These aren't massive businesses raking in billions in profit like Mattel or Hasbro, after all.

And even then, if they did, they run the very real risk of the newer formulas not being well-received by customers, like with Smartdoll's Cortex. That was an insanely expensive bust for Smartdoll on all fronts, and I can't imagine Volks or Obitsu would want a failure like that on their hands.

I do think packaging would be a far more reasonable ask, since there are readily available materials every company could use on that front without the need for R/D.

Edited by Selenae
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Aiming for a DCH-20 in 2021. Forever agonizing over skintone.

 

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Damiensdolls
40 minutes ago, Selenae said:

 

That’s all probably true! Admittedly I tend to be overly optimistic/ambitious when it comes to things like this. But when there’s even a slim chance that I can do something to help, or if the option to at least try is available, I feel like it can’t hurt to try! ^u^
And the packaging idea is also a great point, so if you feel more confident in their potential willingness to change that aspect of their contributions to plastic pollution, that could be a good point to bring up to them in an email.

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Tierparkzone

While I do see your point that biodegradable plastics should see increased use in general, I strongly disagree with the use of those in dolls.

Now every person's approach to the hobby may be different, but a doll purchase is nothing that I do (nor could afford to do) lightly or on a whim. When I got into the hobby it was for the long run and every doll I decide to get, I hope to enjoy the company of for years to come. If a product that (at least to me) takes a decent time to save up for, starts rotting after a couple of years, that would be an absolute dealbreaker for me.

Stuff like Dolls or Legos shouldn't be meant to be thrown out, shouldn't be thrown out (thanks to the internet it is now easier than ever to find new homes for those) and thus shouldn't have a finite lifetime at all.

Any kind of packaging, consumables, cheap and simple gadgets and toys that see only limited use, those make perfect sense to be biodegradable. But stuff that's meant to last should do so.

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Weltfremd

Do you think with Danny Choo marketing towards kids, this would make more sense? Kids usually don't have this kind of collector sense.

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Tasuke

thanks to the OBITSU 26 aftermarket body, i was finally able to get the Anime schoolgirl i've wanted for about 20 years.

the base MEGAHOUSE To Heart 2 doll, and the OBITSU body, combined must have been around $130-some total,

and, while that is hardly 1/3 VOLKS Dollfie money, it ain't quite pocket change either, at least not for me.

 

for my part, both the financial outlay and the emotional attachment towards the final resulting doll

rather dictates against any possible desire to see her turn funny colors or chemically come apart at the seams,

regardless of how "Environmentally Friendly" it might be.

 

at that rate, one may just as well swear themselves off Polymer-based products altogether...

 

Konomi_Yuzuhara_3-31-21_RESIZE_30.jpg?wi


Konomi_Sig_3_RESIZE_250px._Vert.jpg?widt

 

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MaKayla_Panda

yeah as some people said before, re-formulating the vinyl itself would be a huge undertaking and may not even work properly or will be hugely unpopular. However, I absolutely HATE the amount of plastic that is in the packaging. Its RIDICULOUS! A lot of plastic waste is generated from packaging. I definitely feel like these companies could use biodegradable packing and shipping materials for sure

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BeyondTime
9 hours ago, MaKayla_Panda said:

I definitely feel like these companies could use biodegradable packing and shipping materials for sure

I wonder though, if the doll sat in its bag for a long time in stock and the bag biodegraded, would the doll get ruined? They could maybe use paper, but that might be too abrasive. 


The difference between Dollfie Dreams and Heroin? Heroin is illegal, Dollfie Dreams probably should be.

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monkeypizzasonic

There are different types of biodegradable material out there - some only take a few months to decompose, while others take a few years - so it is theoretically possible to pack dolls in sustainable eco-friendly packaging that won't hurt them even if they're lying around for a bit. And it might be possible to implement a system where they write the date the doll was packed and how long the packaging will last on the outside of the box, so people know if they need to take the doll out and re-pack it.

 

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Akito

Well, I have personally solved the problem by not buying new dolls. Just secondhand. That of course won't end the whole problem as new dolls are being made constantly. But it has helped my personal anxiety on the subject. In my case this applies to vinyl dolls (including Barbies) and also bjds.

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Cauldroness

Honestly, folks: Please do NOT do this.

Please don't go after small, teensy companies like SmartDoll, Volks and Obitsu and ask them to take the immensely expensive, lengthy process of re-formulating their plastics for dolls that are not disposable in the first place.

One: WHY? Who, exactly, is putting their $600+ vinyl doll in the landfill, burning it or trying to recycle it?

Two: These little, often family-run companies already get an insane number of insane requests from customers, tying up their already overwhelmed customer service reps. Don't add to their workload. You're negatively impacting other collectors who are actually trying to get real issues resolved -- like replacements for broken parts, incorrectly shipped items, missing pieces, etc.

Three: I cannot tell you how much I hate the idea of a biodegradable doll. This is an awful idea. Maybe the worst idea I've ever heard in all my years of collecting dolls. Most biodegradable plastics last THREE TO SIX MONTHS. Who wants to spent $600+ on a doll that may last ONLY THREE MONTHS?! Even if they could spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even millions of dollars) it might take to formulate an all-new biodegradable formula that lasts longer, who wants a ticking time clock on their doll? Who wants to know it might not be around in 3 years, or 6 years, or 10 years? My oldest dolls are OVER 15 YEARS OLD. I'd like to have them for at least another 15 years -- ideally 30+ more years!!

Four: Even if they could find a biodegradable formula that also promised longevity (say, 30 years)... Considering the issues of staining, material stability, plastic melt, yellowing, etc., I do not want them to change their time-tested formulas and introduce a whole host of new issues.

Five: Say goodbye the second-hand market if this were to happen. Do you think Mandarake, Dollyteria, etc. would buy dolls from consumers, knowing their was a ticking time clock on the dolls -- and that the dolls might literally fall apart before they were able to sell them? Even biodegradable packaging would be an issue, because Mandarake is certainly not going to check on the hundreds of dolls they have in stock and un-pack and re-pack them when packaging expires (not to mention consumers pay less for dolls not in their original packaging). Volks and Obitsu already use paper doll boxes that are fully recyclable.

Six: If you want to make a difference, go after the big companies who have the money to invest in the research: Mattel, MGA, Hasbro, etc. Yes, they're less likely to listen to a single voice. But if you can get them to make a change, you will actually have an impact on the world, because Barbies and Monster High and whatnot actually do end up in landfills.

Seven: Personally, I would never buy a biodegradable doll and I'm probably not the only collector to think so. This move, in addition to being ridiculously expensive, could have very strong negative impacts on their sales.

In short:

Seriously.

Do.

Not.

Do.

This.

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Conuresans
13 minutes ago, Cauldroness said:

Honestly, folks: Please do NOT do this.

Please don't go after small, teensy companies like SmartDoll, Volks and Obitsu and ask them to take the immensely expensive, lengthy process of re-formulating their plastics for dolls that are not disposable in the first place.

One: WHY? Who, exactly, is putting their $600+ vinyl doll in the landfill, burning it or trying to recycle it?

Two: These little, often family-run companies already get an insane number of insane requests from customers, tying up their already overwhelmed customer service reps. Don't add to their workload. You're negatively impacting other collectors who are actually trying to get real issues resolved -- like replacements for broken parts, incorrectly shipped items, missing pieces, etc.

Three: I cannot tell you how much I hate the idea of a biodegradable doll. This is an awful idea. Maybe the worst idea I've ever heard in all my years of collecting dolls. Most biodegradable plastics last THREE TO SIX MONTHS. Who wants to spent $600+ on a doll that may last ONLY THREE MONTHS?! Even if they could spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even millions of dollars) it might take to formulate an all-new biodegradable formula that lasts longer, who wants a ticking time clock on their doll? Who wants to know it might not be around in 3 years, or 6 years, or 10 years? My oldest dolls are OVER 15 YEARS OLD. I'd like to have them for at least another 15 years -- ideally 30+ more years!!

Four: Even if they could find a biodegradable formula that also promised longevity (say, 30 years)... Considering the issues of staining, material stability, plastic melt, yellowing, etc., I do not want them to change their time-tested formulas and introduce a whole host of new issues.

Five: Say goodbye the second-hand market if this were to happen. Do you think Mandarake, Dollyteria, etc. would buy dolls from consumers, knowing their was a ticking time clock on the dolls -- and that the dolls might literally fall apart before they were able to sell them? Even biodegradable packaging would be an issue, because Mandarake is certainly not going to check on the hundreds of dolls they have in stock and un-pack and re-pack them when packaging expires (not to mention consumers pay less for dolls not in their original packaging). Volks and Obitsu already use paper doll boxes that are fully recyclable.

Six: If you want to make a difference, go after the big companies who have the money to invest in the research: Mattel, MGA, Hasbro, etc. Yes, they're less likely to listen to a single voice. But if you can get them to make a change, you will actually have an impact on the world, because Barbies and Monster High and whatnot actually do end up in landfills.

Seven: Personally, I would never buy a biodegradable doll and I'm probably not the only collector to think so. This move, in addition to being ridiculously expensive, could have very strong negative impacts on their sales.

In short:

Seriously.

Do.

Not.

Do.

This.

I'd like to second this remark. Heavily. 

Not only is it more of a corporations (primarily energy with some input from food/drink companies) issue than a niche luxury hobby business issue, but also adding to consider: VOLKS' older clothing sets are literally decomposing as we speak. With each year, the amount of pleather outfits from that era diminishes until there comes a time where the parts will literally be so old they can't be used anymore. How would VOLKS be able to afford the custom, biodegradable packaging if they couldn't get that far in product quality up until recently...? 

In addition, further up I noticed mention of re-packing the packaging once it has degraded. How would VOLKS be able to off-set this? From personal experience, finding boxes large enough to ship/handle the girls in long-term scenarios (i.e. Moving, constant transportation) in is tricky as it is. I do not see them being able to sell biodegradable boxes to store the dolls in as I doubt they would offer a service for re-packaging. 

(Also... If they were to offer this service, costs would more than likely rise. Possibly not by much, but... If it were offered as an option, then they would have to keep 2 types of boxes in the warehouse, in addition to the more selective resourcing.)

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DesertPhantom51

I see your level of commitment to this cause, and believe me, I share a lot of your concern over plastics and their use.  But durable good such as our dolls aren't really the problem when it comes to plastics in our environment.  Single use plastics are a much larger, and more immediate concern when it comes to ocean pollution and non-recyclable landfill usage.   There are so many other simple changes and choices that you can make and advocate for that will make a larger impact for the future than getting Volks, SmD or Obitsu to change their packaging or manufacturing formula.  The result of which would be like turning a table fan against a hurricane to try and change it.  I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns, I feel what you're saying and appreciate your want to change the world for the better.  I just want to point you towards something that will really benefit from your actions.  

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Selenae

@Cauldroness Thank you for this entire post. This is actually what I wanted to say myself, and you did that better than I ever could have.

@Damiensdolls Nah. Like Cauldroness said, I also loathe the idea of biodegradable dolls, and I'm sure most collectors would as well, be they resin, vinyl, or both. In terms of impact, single-use plastics and cheaply mass-produced toys are a far bigger problem than high-end collectors' dolls could ever be. I want a healthier planet as well, but targeting very small hobby companies is not the way to go here.

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Aiming for a DCH-20 in 2021. Forever agonizing over skintone.

 

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sinclair
On 3/31/2021 at 5:12 PM, Cauldroness said:

Honestly, folks: Please do NOT do this.

...

In short:

Seriously.

Do.

Not.

Do.

This.

AMEN!!!

This is a hobby. Hobby items should not be going to more 'environmentally friendly' material. If you feel 'bad' for your participation in collecting these kids of dolls, then stop. Don't go and ruin it for the rest of us to still your troubled mind. (Sorry, seen 1st hand too many things ruined in the name of 'bettering' the environment I can come off very strongly. So I'll get off my soap box and shut up.)

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Yumeiro

The amount of flying Danny Choo does (did, pre covid) to promote his company/dolls would negate any environmental benefit biodegradable Smartdolls would have.

Dolls tend to be very "recyclable" as it is. Even the very damaged ones tend to be of use for someone's customizing projects.
 

On 4/1/2021 at 3:07 AM, DesertPhantom51 said:

There are so many other simple changes and choices that you can make and advocate for that will make a larger impact for the future than getting Volks, SmD or Obitsu to change their packaging or manufacturing formula.

Yes, this.
I'd gladly see a reduction in unnecessary, or lazy, packaging where plastics or an abundance of materials could be avoided. But overall, we "the little guys", and the small companies, are the ones forced to pay for the damage the bigger companies does to the planet...
So I think it is better to try and do your part, and keep the environment in mind when you shop and travel, instead.

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Misuka
On 3/30/2021 at 7:54 PM, Damiensdolls said:

I have a huge love for vinyl dolls, but to be honest I feel a lot of guilt and anxiety knowing that the vinyls and plastics that make up the dolls I love are harmful to the environment. They are non biodegradable, pollute the air when burned, and are usually not recyclable. I hate knowing that my decision to buy these beautiful dolls will negatively impact the world that future generations will have to deal with. However, I feel like it doesn’t have to be this way. I think we can make a change, so here’s my proposal:

Admittedly, it is very difficult for the individual consumer to make an impact on environmental issues since large companies are the largest contributors to pollution by far. However, I think relatively smaller companies like Smart Doll are much more likely to listen to us than huge conglomerates like Apple and Coca Cola. So, if we each contact/email the support services of the doll companies we love, they may actually hear us and consider using a more sustainable alternative to PVC!

Dolls, either resin or vinyl, are not PVC. PVC is a very specific type of plastic.

 

And the concept that plastics are going anywhere is well intentioned, but utterly futile. Plastics are absolutely necessary for modern medicine. You go into a hospital, everything is plastic. And it has to be. Microplastics are absolutely an issue, but the methods of which people are attempting to solve the issues are not helpful.

Most of plastic waste is due to either A: trash, or B: microplastics from 'recycling' (or other degrading) which in the end, has been a worse endeavor (plastic leeching into water supply, microplastics) rather than using glass. However, glass is heavy and has transport issues, which is why plastics took off in the first place. But the concept that we should be taking items which could be legacy hand-me-downs (toys for multiple generations, like these dolls) is silly. Resin and vinyl dolls are made to last.

 

In short, absolutely not. I would never buy a biodegradable doll. I buy dolls for myself and my children and my childrens children and for future generations to enjoy this unique piece of artwork. It isn't meant to be degraded into the ground. It's a fine piece of artwork for future generations and obviously myself to enjoy.

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Testament
Posted (edited)

It's a big problem, because this can be extended to PVC statue and other collector items. I don't want to see my 200$ PVC figure disintegrating after years.... or my hi end transformers collection.

Or even my Super Nintendo, for example...

 

Biodegradation would be better if it is a comandable process, like "submerge in water for 3 hours" or "use this other enviroment friendly chemical component to dissociate the plastic in no harmful basic elements" or "expose the item to UVB ray for 1 day and it will vanish in thin air"...

Edited by Testament
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Nyx Whitestar
Posted (edited)

I don't know the situation in other area of the world, but in France and Europe, PVC (vinyle) seems to be either recycled or incinerated with appropriate filters. Here is what I read on Wikipedia France: 

Quote

Burning poly (vinyl chloride) mainly releases hydrochloric acid in the presence of water vapor contained in the air. Currently, all approved household waste incineration plants are equipped with acid filters, as there are chlorides in many wastes. Burning garbage in the open is a serious environmental damage.

Quote

If the difficulty of sorting does not allow the PVC objects to be isolated from the rest of the household waste, they can be incinerated with them: this makes it possible to recover the energy potential of PVC. Household waste incineration is very usefully aided by the presence of plastic waste, including PVC, without which fuel oil would have to be injected into the incinerator to allow combustion. It's clean incineration.

Quote

Before the 2000s, PVC was perceived as a non-recyclable material, intended to end up in landfill or to be incinerated. In 2000, the PVC industry in Europe decided to launch Vinyl2010: an action plan whose main objective was to set up collection and recycling channels adapted to the different types of end-of-life waste to be treated. The Vinyl2010 voluntary commitment (2000-2010) made it possible to recycle 260,000 t of post-consumer PVC per year, instead of the 200,000 t initially planned.

Don't burn your dolls in your backyard and it will be fine 😉

I agree disposable plastic items are a larger problem, in France they're now banned, like straws in fast-foods, etc. And all the plastic bottles in vending machines and other items which end up in the normal trash instead of the recycling channels.

Edited by Nyx Whitestar
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BeyondTime
5 hours ago, Yumeiro said:

Even the very damaged ones tend to be of use for someone's customizing projects.

And people rescue / refurbish them. These dolls are treated more like classic cars than throwaways. 

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The difference between Dollfie Dreams and Heroin? Heroin is illegal, Dollfie Dreams probably should be.

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Galvatim

https://corporate.hasbro.com/en-us/articles/debut_of_virtually_plastic_free_packaging

Hasbro is trying to reduce the amount of plastic used in packaging.  Overall, this is a good thing, but I do wonder what it means for Star Wars Vintage Collection action figures.  The vintage Kenner style packaging is a huge draw, to the point where loose collectors like myself buy some to leave packaged.  

 

The thought of my expensive, high end collectibles degrading into mush is terrifying.  

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fishbuttz
10 hours ago, Nyx Whitestar said:

I agree disposable plastic items are a larger problem, in France they're now banned, like straws in fast-foods, etc. And all the plastic bottles in vending machines and other items which end up in the normal trash instead of the recycling channels.

You also get into all sorts of ethical problems by putting the onus of planet degradation on consumers because it pits us against each other. Many chronically ill and disabled people rely on single use plastics (like straws) for their day to day functioning and wholesale bans can mean leaving the most vulnerable of our populations out to flounder, which is now a human rights issue. There are other plastics that cause way more environmental problems (hello, fishing industry), but due to their legal and cooperate pull, they get to continue on with minimal regulation while disabled people get heckled in Starbucks for asking for a straw. These are problems that don't come with a one-size-fits-all solution.

Ultimately, we do the best we can as little people and we rally with our governments to actually hold these destructive mega-conglomerates accountable for their actions, but what we choose to do regarding a niche, expensive hobby intended for longevity has virtually zilch to do with our carbon footprint. I also worry that if we started attacking collector hobbies like this, it would lead to activist burnout in the movement (because they can't enjoy nice things ever due to the environmental impact) and alienate older collectors until the community aspect dissipated completely or went totally underground, as it were.

TL;DR: I think your heart is in the right place, but I also believe your energy is better spent rallying elsewhere.


She/her

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BeyondTime
2 hours ago, fishbuttz said:

Many chronically ill and disabled people rely on single use plastics (like straws) for their day to day functioning and wholesale bans can mean leaving the most vulnerable of our populations out to flounder, which is now a human rights issue.

I have a medicine that is like that, and the use of single-use plastics does bother me. I would say ideally they should be used only where needed, and that’s not what we’re doing today. 


The difference between Dollfie Dreams and Heroin? Heroin is illegal, Dollfie Dreams probably should be.

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Irulazuli

Interesting topic! It's something that I have been wondering as well. One thing I wonder as everyone mentioned biodegradable dolls that dissolve after a set of time, within a lifetime of the user - what about porcelain or wood? These are not materials that are suitable to replace vinyl, of course, but they have been used to make dolls in the past. Ideally, someone would find a more environmentally firendly material that is similar to vinyl/plastic enough (and this might mean that it degrades slowly overtime if not taken care of properly - like all art does).

That being said, I think a small amount of hobbyist buying dolls that they do not intend to throw into the landfill is still nothing compared to the plastic producing machine that dominates the world (hello fast fashion?).

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Gweneveryn
23 minutes ago, Irulazuli said:

Interesting topic! It's something that I have been wondering as well. One thing I wonder as everyone mentioned biodegradable dolls that dissolve after a set of time, within a lifetime of the user - what about porcelain or wood? These are not materials that are suitable to replace vinyl, of course, but they have been used to make dolls in the past. Ideally, someone would find a more environmentally firendly material that is similar to vinyl/plastic enough (and this might mean that it degrades slowly overtime if not taken care of properly - like all art does).

That being said, I think a small amount of hobbyist buying dolls that they do not intend to throw into the landfill is still nothing compared to the plastic producing machine that dominates the world (hello fast fashion?).

There are already many vintage dolls made out of these materials, however these materials cannot emmulate the look, feel, flexibility and strength of vinyl dolls, which is why there is a market for vinyl in the first place. 

All things will degrade with age. However, "enviromentally friendly" items are more often than not, packaged and shipped with plastic, due to fragility and shelf life. Having biodegradable items come at a cost, and that cost is even more plastic waste that the consumer does not see. While I do think one can mitigate some issues with packaging such as @MaKayla_Panda has said, a lot of packaging (at least personally) is retained for storage and/or for packaging of the doll/clothes/items if they are sold secondhand. 

While I understand that this is posted with best interests in mind, I would love for my dolls to last as long as possible. If you would like to reduce waste, why not urge companies to build a better frame or use better materials to extend longevity since they are collector's items anyway? 

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