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The Facebook debacle & other issues

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ladyandlion
On 6/19/2024 at 10:40 PM, CatGirl said:

Even if it was a joke, that's still a huge yikes ūüė¨ If I have to convince someone to let me buy their product, that's way too much effort and they clearly don't need my money tbh.

And I agree! Buying a doll should be a positive experience. I can't imagine throwing $300+ at one and worrying if the company will even allow you to buy it.

That's just one more reason for me to not go on Twitter, lol!

Very true. It felt more like a cope as she laughed off the fact she had to jump through hoops to get the doll. I mean what would you even have to say in order to get one? How would you know what to say? I just get frustrated because most people don't talk about that when they make videos talking about purchasing Smart Dolls as well as the fact that no one questions why you'd need to do all of that in the first place. But unfortunately that's kind of the point you made that it started to feel like people were focusing way more on Danny then the business practices or quality of the product. I used to really enjoy his business model and marketing (except for the weird decision to use very young children for marketing and not actual enthusiasts.) But he started to show how sensitive he was about (mostly valid) criticism and it all spiraled. He went from making things straight forward and easy to difficult and nerve-wracking. 

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sunlightandtea

In the process of selling my entire collection of doll stuff and yet, his new smart dolls make me want to dive headfirst back into the hobby. Despite all the issues with Danny, those smart dolls have a grip on me that I cannot explain. Anyone else? 

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DollyDearest
3 hours ago, sunlightandtea said:

In the process of selling my entire collection of doll stuff and yet, his new smart dolls make me want to dive headfirst back into the hobby. Despite all the issues with Danny, those smart dolls have a grip on me that I cannot explain. Anyone else? 

yup.especially certain sculpts and the endless, fruitless return of smd boys lol

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Yumeiro
16 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

I mean what would you even have to say in order to get one? How would you know what to say?

Makes me think of the amount of snark on his website - imagine how fast you'd be declined service if you'd reply in kind.

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PlasticJester

Oh lord, the snark. Every few months I go through the new items and blog posts with my girlfriend and do dramatic readings of parts of them. Once again- I LIKE most of the Smartdoll products! But the descriptions, particularly the "here's why we don't want you to buy this", are just so passive-aggressive. It's a real turn-off.

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Giallo_Gatta
6 hours ago, PlasticJester said:

Oh lord, the snark. Every few months I go through the new items and blog posts with my girlfriend and do dramatic readings of parts of them. Once again- I LIKE most of the Smartdoll products! But the descriptions, particularly the "here's why we don't want you to buy this", are just so passive-aggressive. It's a real turn-off.

I regrettably have to agree. I found it witty and charming at first, but it's kind of gotten to the point where it's clearly just trying to say "Look at me! Look how edgy and hip I am!"

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ladyandlion
8 hours ago, Yumeiro said:

Makes me think of the amount of snark on his website - imagine how fast you'd be declined service if you'd reply in kind.

Honestly makes me worry that there will be something in the endless amounts of paragraphs on that site that would magically get you access to buying a doll and if you don't read it all, you'll miss it...like who wants to read all of that! I'm not buying an Iphone, I'm buying a vinyl doll. In the end it's just a way to shield himself from criticism. If you see a flaw and don't immediately accept it as wabi-sabi then he can go ahead and make a post about how people don't read the posts on the website about purchasing etc etc. 

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ZandurFox

I remember I talked to a doll collector when I was selling a Disney Limited Edition 16" doll to her and I can tell she used to be a Smart Doll owner, since she said to me that she had a very bad experience from buying a Smart Doll and then she refused to elaborate further. I don't know if the buyer at the time was banned from DC's store. This was almost four years ago!

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sunlightandtea
Posted (edited)

What happened here?

Edit: Seems to be fixed, must have been a Twitter glitch 

IMG_4958.png.c2e22912a18eb9a8ab4d40c7dcec7bfa.png

Edited by sunlightandtea

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DollyDearest

I want pose a question. I mentioned dogpling on constructive criticism.   when does it become an issue, when someone makes a 2 part video on someone feeling that DC doesn't represent the LGBTQ+a community with smart doll?

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ladyandlion
47 minutes ago, DollyDearest said:

I want pose a question. I mentioned dogpling on constructive criticism.   when does it become an issue, when someone makes a 2 part video on someone feeling that DC doesn't represent the LGBTQ+a community with smart doll?

After watching the videos in question, I'd first say that only one of the videos covered that topic because it was a continuation of a stream by the looks of things.

Anyway, I'm always rather wary when I look at content from Danny Choo/Smart Doll super fans as I already know there is a bias so I take it with a grain of salt. That being said, the LGBTQ+ community isn't a monolith and I'm sure some people don't mind being pandered to while others do. I'm sure some would rather profits go to organizations that benefit the community while others are content enough with only visual representation. Personally, I don't get the sense that Danny actually cares that much and the way he's going about it feels like an afterthought. That being said, I don't know enough about these dolls beyond the photos I've seen. I'm also going by all of the other dolls he's produced and his hyper-focus on representation of various physical conditions and states among other things (though ironically has been dragging his feet with creating male dolls and iirc, made some some questionable comments that are contrary to his current actions with creating Pride-themed dolls.) Either way I think it's good to question companies and their sincerity when it comes to using identity politics. Representation is good, when it's good. The problem is, I just feel like there's already a weird cult of personality mentality around him and the brand so...I don't know. The waters feel muddy to me. I don't know Danny personally and just going through this thread his personality just doesn't seem to mesh with the kind of person who I'd associate with being charitable or sensitive to the nuances of certain communities. 

This topic may end up being too political for this forum but here is my two cents. 

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DollyDearest
4 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

After watching the videos in question, I'd first say that only one of the videos covered that topic because it was a continuation of a stream by the looks of things.

Anyway, I'm always rather wary when I look at content from Danny Choo/Smart Doll super fans as I already know there is a bias so I take it with a grain of salt. That being said, the LGBTQ+ community isn't a monolith and I'm sure some people don't mind being pandered to while others do. I'm sure some would rather profits go to organizations that benefit the community while others are content enough with only visual representation. Personally, I don't get the sense that Danny actually cares that much and the way he's going about it feels like an afterthought. That being said, I don't know enough about these dolls beyond the photos I've seen. I'm also going by all of the other dolls he's produced and his hyper-focus on representation of various physical conditions and states among other things (though ironically has been dragging his feet with creating male dolls and iirc, made some some questionable comments that are contrary to his current actions with creating Pride-themed dolls.) Either way I think it's good to question companies and their sincerity when it comes to using identity politics. Representation is good, when it's good. The problem is, I just feel like there's already a weird cult of personality mentality around him and the brand so...I don't know. The waters feel muddy to me. I don't know Danny personally and just going through this thread his personality just doesn't seem to mesh with the kind of person who I'd associate with being charitable or sensitive to the nuances of certain communities. 

This topic may end up being too political for this forum but here is my two cents. I'm in

people always seem to say he's layed back or something.   sorry for sounding political, I was curious.  cause I tend to show a lot of empathy to, others, when I feel thier just voicing an opinion. Idk 

Edited by DollyDearest

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BeyondTime
17 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

though ironically has been dragging his feet with creating male dolls and iirc, made some some questionable comments that are contrary to his current actions with creating Pride-themed dolls.

What were the comments?

It shouldn't violate the no politics rule to discuss comments Danny made that relate to his business, as long as the discussion sticks to dollmaking stuff, and isn't about the politics of the issues themselves.

Male dolls honestly seem to be more of a resin thing imo. Volks makes plenty of resin boys, but hardly any vinyl boys. Does Obitsu even make boys at all? I know there are some other dollmakers that do. On the resin side I am pretty sure all the big producers of resin girls also make boys.

I'm guessing if there was a huge market for vinyl boys, then Volks would be making them a lot more often. Instead, they do more of an on-demand thing through Dream Choice and the occasional pre-order project.


The difference between Dollfie Dreams and Heroin? Heroin is illegal, Dollfie Dreams probably should be.

‚ÄúEmpty wallets, full hearts.‚ÄĚ That‚Äôs probably an apt description for the effects of DD addiction

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DollyDearest
4 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

What were the comments?

It shouldn't violate the no politics rule to discuss comments Danny made that relate to his business, as long as the discussion sticks to dollmaking stuff, and isn't about the politics of the issues themselves.

Male dolls honestly seem to be more of a resin thing imo. Volks makes plenty of resin boys, but hardly any vinyl boys. Does Obitsu even make boys at all? I know there are some other dollmakers that do. On the resin side I am pretty sure all the big producers of resin girls also make boys.

I'm guessing if there was a huge market for vinyl boys, then Volks would be making them a lot more often. Instead, they do more of an on-demand thing through Dream Choice and the occasional pre-order project.

I was just mentioning that someone on x had comment how DC possibly profits from LGBTQIA themed dolls such as limitless ( infinity symbol) and wondered if it was bullying to make a 2 part video calling  out someone for having that opinion 

Edited by DollyDearest

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ladyandlion
6 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

What were the comments?

It shouldn't violate the no politics rule to discuss comments Danny made that relate to his business, as long as the discussion sticks to dollmaking stuff, and isn't about the politics of the issues themselves.

Male dolls honestly seem to be more of a resin thing imo. Volks makes plenty of resin boys, but hardly any vinyl boys. Does Obitsu even make boys at all? I know there are some other dollmakers that do. On the resin side I am pretty sure all the big producers of resin girls also make boys.

I'm guessing if there was a huge market for vinyl boys, then Volks would be making them a lot more often. Instead, they do more of an on-demand thing through Dream Choice and the occasional pre-order project.

In previous pages of the thread, I believe it was mentioned that Danny might had been making some jokes and jabs at the male dolls and it was something like "I don't make them because I don't swing that way" or something similar. Please forgive me if I got that wrong or didn't do my due diligence in providing an example but it made me think of it (and I'm not saying that makes Danny homophobic.) 

I know that male dolls can be quite popular in the doll community. Smart Doll already offers so many diverse options, I don't think it's unreasonable to want or expect that (considering he had Eiji as his own original character and then later on Crimson.) But that's a really good observation. I suppose vinyl dolls are more anime-esque, may be harder to appreciate. Resin offers something more realistic. 

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PlasticJester
7 hours ago, DollyDearest said:

I was just mentioning that someone on x had comment how DC possibly profits from LGBTQIA themed dolls such as limitless ( infinity symbol) and wondered if it was bullying to make a 2 part video calling  out someone for having that opinion 

JSYK, Limitless is not an LGBT doll, she's a doll for autism awareness. I've made my thoughts on that doll known earlier in the thread. Also, as far as I'm concerned, Danny is a public figure, so I wouldn't call it bullying so much as having a discussion if the videos are made in good faith? No different than, say, pointing out Monster High's history with LGBT representation.

12 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

I'm guessing if there was a huge market for vinyl boys, then Volks would be making them a lot more often. Instead, they do more of an on-demand thing through Dream Choice and the occasional pre-order project.

5 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

I know that male dolls can be quite popular in the doll community. Smart Doll already offers so many diverse options, I don't think it's unreasonable to want or expect that (considering he had Eiji as his own original character and then later on Crimson.) But that's a really good observation. I suppose vinyl dolls are more anime-esque, may be harder to appreciate. Resin offers something more realistic. 

I think male dolls are actually hugely sought after. Look at how many people love that Imomodoll sells male bodies, or wish for Smartdoll's males to come back, or that the DDB and DDSB weren't Dream Choice exclusive. I mean, I would love if either of those things happen. I would say it's not entirely due to a lack of demand, but perhaps something else? Not saying it's something like sexism of course, but maybe Dollfie is unwilling to make the leap on selling male doll bodies outright in case they're not as popular as expected, as it would likely require more production costs.

 

 

Edited by PlasticJester
Wanted to respond to other people.

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BeyondTime
3 hours ago, PlasticJester said:

I think male dolls are actually hugely sought after. Look at how many people love that Imomodoll sells male bodies, or wish for Smartdoll's males to come back, or that the DDB and DDSB weren't Dream Choice exclusive. I mean, I would love if either of those things happen.

Are we talking dozens, hundreds, or thousands of people? Would the current demand for something scarce fall off if it wasn't scarce?

If they really had huge demand, I don't think they wouldn't lock it; I mean, if you can print money you do it. I'm sure they are aware of NA demand.

Volks USA should maybe think about adding male Icons to their Dollfie Icon lineup; if Japan will let them. They would be the very definition of "Boy Toy" ūü§£ūüėāūü§£

Danny doesn't exactly need the money given that his likely inheritance will be staggeringly large, so he can make what he wants and ignore the market. 

It's hard to say with Volks because they like to do exclusive bodies like SD16, which iirc is normally limited to the America's, and unfortunately for North Americans boys are limited to Japan.

9 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

In previous pages of the thread, I believe it was mentioned that Danny might had been making some jokes and jabs at the male dolls and it was something like "I don't make them because I don't swing that way" or something similar. Please forgive me if I got that wrong or didn't do my due diligence in providing an example but it made me think of it 

You didn't get it wrong, that is back there in the thread. 


 

9 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

(and I'm not saying that makes Danny homophobic.) 

I am pretty sure his comment would be read as homophobic by most. 


The difference between Dollfie Dreams and Heroin? Heroin is illegal, Dollfie Dreams probably should be.

‚ÄúEmpty wallets, full hearts.‚ÄĚ That‚Äôs probably an apt description for the effects of DD addiction

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Yumeiro
15 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

I believe it was mentioned that Danny might had been making some jokes and jabs at the male dolls and it was something like "I don't make them because I don't swing that way" or something similar.

You can read up on it here

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DollyDearest
13 hours ago, PlasticJester said:

JSYK, Limitless is not an LGBT doll, she's a doll for autism awareness. I've made my thoughts on that doll known earlier in the thread. Also, as far as I'm concerned, Danny is a public figure, so I wouldn't call it bullying so much as having a discussion if the videos are made in good faith? No different than, say, pointing out Monster High's history with LGBT representation.

I think male dolls are actually hugely sought after. Look at how many people love that Imomodoll sells male bodies, or wish for Smartdoll's males to come back, or that the DDB and DDSB weren't Dream Choice exclusive. I mean, I would love if either of those things happen. I would say it's not entirely due to a lack of demand, but perhaps something else? Not saying it's something like sexism of course, but maybe Dollfie is unwilling to make the leap on selling male doll bodies outright in case they're not as popular as expected, as it would likely require more production costs.

 

Opps I ment like proud prowess, as I said making 2 by video's based on someone's beliefs is weird in of it's self 

 

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ladyandlion
14 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

I am pretty sure his comment would be read as homophobic by most. 

I think so too. I just didn't want anyone to think I was making accusations. Plus I wanted to be sure of what the original comment was.

"The most challenging part of making Eiji was that I have no interest in the male body what so ever - this made it difficult to decide what look smexy and what didn't. The female Smart Doll body however was dead easy as I kinda like the female form ^^"

Uhhh...okay. It's fine if he's not attracted to men but it's odd to even bring that up. Nor do I think it's required for him to constantly compare the male body to the girls. "He shares the same frame, he can wear their clothes. etc" Clearly he prioritizes the female dolls and that overall, dolls appeal more to women/girls in general and of course, male anime fans in this case. But I highly doubt the male artists and designers working at Vollks talk about or manufacture their male dolls with this mentality. They design male dolls for people who want them and it's not about trying to make them fit into the frame of the female dolls. You don't NEED to be attracted to men in order to create a male doll. If that were the case, would we have a bunch of GI Joes and ThreeZero figures? And I realize that male dolls fashioned after anime characters isn't quite the same as the super macho, hyper-realistic male figures that male collectors like to buy. So, he's trying to design the male dolls based on what women like. And sure maybe that's more challenging but I guess I'm not a fan of the weird mentality he's expressing. But I know that he clearly doesn't seem to want to do it, because he treats it like a school assignment that he's procrastinating on. He had them then suddenly decided to stopped creating them for some reason. 

To stay on topic, does he have to make male dolls in order to be supportive of Pride and the LGBTQ+ community? I guess that depends on what the customers think and what they want to see. Ultimately, these are dolls that you can project any kind of identity on to which is in the power of the customer to do that. But I get sick of people thinking Danny is this big-hearted person with a modest little start up business instead of the son of a millionaire who is just having fun with his little side project brand. I think he could actually make more money with his brand if he'd change up some of the things he's been doing but I don't pretend to be a business major. But here's the thing. When I go to the front page of the site, I don't see banners celebrating Pride with dolls holding Pride flags or being featured in same sex couplings or dolls being featured with their owners who happen to be SSA. What I do see is a bizarre amount of children, young children, posing with these dolls and NO actual adult doll owners. 

7 hours ago, Yumeiro said:

You can read up on it here

That was a very unpleasant, annoying read for me (*cringe*) but thanks so much for going to the trouble of finding the source. Much appreciated.

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PlasticJester
13 minutes ago, ladyandlion said:

When I go to the front page of the site, I don't see banners celebrating Pride with dolls holding Pride flags or being featured in same sex couplings or dolls being featured with their owners who happen to be SSA. What I do see is a bizarre amount of children, young children, posing with these dolls and NO actual adult doll owners.

...you know, you just brought up something I've never thought of. The bizarre child-based advertising has been discussed here time and time again. I'm personally not a fan of it, but that's not my main thought here. The thing is: where are all the photos of the diverse range of dolls with real human people like them? An amputee doll with an actual amputee, or a doll matched with a human with vitiligo, or even just the pear dolls with actual plus-sized people. And while, yes, you could claim that you can't track how many disabled people or people with matching features own these dolls...well, uh, that's where hiring models for advertising comes into play. I never realized how odd it is that I rarely even see, say, a black child with a black doll on-site.

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BeyondTime
2 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

But I highly doubt the male artists and designers working at Vollks talk about or manufacture their male dolls with this mentality. They design male dolls for people who want them and it's not about trying to make them fit into the frame of the female dolls. You don't NEED to be attracted to men in order to create a male doll.

The head of their Doll Design Department is a woman, and she has no issues working on male & female designs.  

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The difference between Dollfie Dreams and Heroin? Heroin is illegal, Dollfie Dreams probably should be.

‚ÄúEmpty wallets, full hearts.‚ÄĚ That‚Äôs probably an apt description for the effects of DD addiction

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sunlightandtea
On 7/10/2024 at 1:16 PM, DollyDearest said:

I was just mentioning that someone on x had comment how DC possibly profits from LGBTQIA themed dolls such as limitless ( infinity symbol) and wondered if it was bullying to make a 2 part video calling  out someone for having that opinion

I know the videos you're talking about and have watched them both in entirety, both creators are of the opinion that Danny is not pride profiteering. Whether or not you believe that is up to you, but those creators are extremely friendly to Danny and not bullying him at all. They offer some suggestions but really only because they want to see smart doll grow when that's not Danny's goal.

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ladyandlion
25 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

The head of their Doll Design Department is a woman, and she has no issues working on male & female designs.  

Even better! 

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DollyDearest
4 hours ago, sunlightandtea said:

I know the videos you're talking about and have watched them both in entirety, both creators are of the opinion that Danny is not pride profiteering. Whether or not you believe that is up to you, but those creators are extremely friendly to Danny and not bullying him at all. They offer some suggestions but really only because they want to see smart doll grow when that's not Danny's goal.

I wasn't accusing. I just feel,it unnecessary to bring what people say on x every 5 mins. I empathize with people who feel strongly about something is all. I do apologize if I sounded dumb.

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