Sold a head, being accused of it being yellow…?

Hi guys. Im sorry if this is the wrong place to post this. But im having really bad anxiety and im not sure what to do.

I am in no way trying to put down the buyer or accuse them of anything. I am simply here to ask your opinion if this head i sold is yellow. They want to return the item to me because apparently it has yellowed a lot and does not fit the body they bought in terms of color at all.

However, my shop has a no return policy on ebay, and i have stated the item is from 2010. I do not know if my eyes decieve me or not, but i have checked my doll head and i cannot seem to find the yellowing they are speaking of. Again, i am not here to accuse the buyer of lying or anything of the sort.

The issue is that i was selling off my doll head due to money issues, so for them to want to return it would be rough, especially since the head i sold doesnt even look yellow to me…can someone here please point out if the head is yellow? Is my eyesight just bad? I sold the body for this head to another customer and they had no complaints about any yellowing and left a positive feedback note to me. 

If the head really is yellow, i would love nothing more than to refund the buyer, but im here just to make sure im not crazy or something ^^’

i have asked them for an image of the head on the body they have, as well as asked them if they bought the wrong body color by any chance. I know volks may have changed the normal/fresh skin color over the years, but i cannot imagine it being so dramatic. So far though, no response.

thank you.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Rumi

Well, this is a bit of a sticky one unfortunately.

What you've sold was a Yuki Morikawa head from 2010, if the buyer is trying to put the head on a brand new body, there is going to be a 95% chance of tone difference either they want it or not.

Im assuming those photos are your own, and its going to be a bit of a problem trying to judge is it "yellow" or not, without having anything else to compare it to especially if its still on its own body, and also lighting plays a part in it too.

as a practical age difference example I have my Old Blue and New Blue:

In my opinion my old blue is in fair condition for her age, and infact she has a yellowing issue caused by her wig, but thats underneath it, but junior is definately more pink in terms of tone.

And also a side note, this head was quite desirable at one point in time, so there is the possobility of excitement turning into dissapointment when the reality of old vinyl on new vinyl came apparent.

 

but this is only my two cents, offered only as a reference.

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by finnleo

22 minutes ago, finnleo said:

Well, this is a bit of a sticky one unfortunately.

What you've sold was a Yuki Morikawa head from 2010, if the buyer is trying to put the head on a brand new body, there is going to be a 95% chance of tone difference either they want it or not.

Im assuming those photos are your own, and its going to be a bit of a problem trying to judge is it "yellow" or not, without having anything else to compare it to especially if its still on its own body, and also lighting plays a part in it too.

as a practical age difference example I have my Old Blue and New Blue:

In my opinion my old blue is in fair condition for her age, and infact she has a yellowing issue caused by her wig, but thats underneath it, but junior is definately more pink in terms of tone.

And also a side note, this head was quite desirable at one point in time, so there is the possobility of excitement turning into dissapointment when the reality of old vinyl on new vinyl came apparent.

 

but this is only my two cents, offered only as a reference.

 

Indeed, vinyl will change no matter what. I still dont know if that makes it a good reason to return it though. I did state she was used and from 2010 so there is no reason for them to expect her to not have a slight color change or be perfect. It seems like either volks changed the color to a bit more rosy or the vinyl aged. I guess i just have to wait and see if the buyer insists 😕 

I have a Yuki, and her head is definitely slightly more yellow than the new bodies. Every Yuki that I've seen recently is like this. IMO this is both because of the age of the sculpt AND that the current normal/flesh is a little more pink than it used to be. Every older head or body I have is not as pink as the newer color. I wouldn't think that if it were only down to age that every piece would be evenly a darker/more yellow color.

I have my Yuki on a newer (though not brand new) DDdyIII body, and if you look for the color difference you can see it, but it doesn't bother me enough to limit her to an older DDII body to match more.

If the buyer really wanted a Yuki and was given the chance to return your head and buy another instead, I'm betting that any Yuki head is going to have this same problem for them. Mandarake does list Yuki heads as being evenly yellowed when I've seen them up, but my head was from them and it really wasn't as bad as they made it sound.

It's up to you whether you want to enforce your no return policy or allow a return though. Something to consider is whether the money or your feedback is more important, and whether you think the buyer will try to get their money back while keeping the head or something. 

I can say that Volks newer Bodys will look a lot different with old heads. They look yellowed due to the colour even if they aren't. (Just my opinion though~)
I think it will be hard to proof that the old head is not "yellowed", especially to someone who isn't familiar with the hobby and/or this issue.
Not sure if its worth to spill the blood over this to be honest. ^^"

I wouldn't say that head is yellow at all... maybe slightly mellowed from age, but nowhere near close enough to actually be called yellow. The head is still visibly peachy, even using a colour dropper on the image shows that the colour of the vinyl is pretty firmly on the red side of orange. It's a little hard for me to believe the buyer's claim that it "does not fit the body they bought in terms of color at all.", especially if whoever bought the body didn't mention any yellowing. 

Unless the buyer can provide a picture showing clear yellowing on a Flesh toned body, I wouldn't do the refund. If it's just a difference of vinyl colour due to Volks changing it over the years, then that's entirely on the buyer - they bought the head knowing it was over 10 years old. If they didn't research how a head from from 2010 would compare to what I'm going to assume is a recently made body, then that's on them.

When I put my Mio Akiyama on a new f3 body I could see a color difference, but Mio doesn’t look yellowed to me. It’s more like her normal skin is just a slightly different shade of normal.

The newer heads use softer vinyl too, and that might account for a bit of color variation. I’ll defer to people more knowledgeable about vinyl production to say whether or not that’s possible. 

Just now, hellFlower said:

I wouldn't say that head is yellow at all... maybe slightly mellowed from age, but nowhere near close enough to actually be called yellow. The head is still visibly peachy, even using a colour dropper on the image shows that the colour of the vinyl is pretty firmly on the red side of orange. It's a little hard for me to believe the buyer's claim that it "does not fit the body they bought in terms of color at all.", especially if whoever bought the body didn't mention any yellowing. 

Unless the buyer can provide a picture showing clear yellowing on a Flesh toned body, I wouldn't do the refund. If it's just a difference of vinyl colour due to Volks changing it over the years, then that's entirely on the buyer - they bought the head knowing it was over 10 years old. If they didn't research how a head from from 2010 would compare to what I'm going to assume is a recently made body, then that's on them.

If its a brand new Body I can confirm they look different. A lot. So if they are unfamiliar, its fair to believe (for them) the head is yellowed ^^" My Ryomou didn't work on a new body at all, I had to find an older Body. (DDII)

Thanks for all your answers guys. Like i said, this wasnt a means to attack or prove the buyer wrong neccesarily. I just wanted to find out if she had yellowed significantly. I will have to figure out how to come to an agreement together with the buyer if they reply ^^’. I want both of us to be satisfied by any means. I could perhaps offer them % of the price back, or i could accept a return. They could also sell the head if they do not want it. I believe i have to deal with customs and stuff if they decide to return it though…its a mess to say the least.

22 minutes ago, Rumi said:

They could also sell the head if they do not want it. I believe i have to deal with customs and stuff if they decide to return it though…its a mess to say the least.

You might contact customs and see if fees can be waived based on the circumstances. This was a net $0 transaction and the item originated with you. 
 

22 minutes ago, Rumi said:

I could perhaps offer them % of the price back, or i could accept a return.

I would go probably go with a straight return. There are a lot of unscrupulous buyers out there who will complain in order to get a price break on a completed transaction. You were pretty upfront about the age of the head, and their own claim at most seems to be more the result of not understanding what they were buying rather than any real issue with what you were selling. 

Went and checked both Mio & Saber Lily in the sunlight. Both are on brand new f3 bodies, and both were originally DDII. There is a slight but noticeable color difference with no indication of yellowing in either head. Both heads look flesh colored under sunlight, but are just a slightly different shade of flesh than the body. As folks have said the bodies are slightly pinker, so I’m inclined to say yes there is a color change in the vinyl since the DDII girls were made. 

That said, the difference isn’t so pronounced that I would put either of them back on a DDII body. 

Newer bodies probably look pinker because of the red coloring in the vinyl. IIRC red pigments/dyes readily absorb more UV light, which results in it fading. I have a few older heads that aren't as peachy as the new bodies but I just added a bit more blush onto them to make them match a little better hahaha.

I think people expect heads that are 10+ years old need to understand that everything ages, even vinyl. I know a lot of us here are guilty of saying "DDs don't yellow", but it's not truly accurate. Vinyl is more color stable than resin tho.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Subaru

I don't think you're really in the wrong.   I think it's a pretty common fact that older bodies will not have the same tone as newer.  This has been evident in both Smart Dolls and Dollfie Dreams.  This is in part to aging and in part to the formulas for exact vinyl tones if.... well, aything but exact. It changes over time.  They really shouldn't have expected it to be an exact match to new bodies.

 

9 minutes ago, Subaru said:

IIRC red pigments/dyes readily absorb more UV light, which results in it fading.

That fits what I learned about light when studying photography. Red surfaces either absorb blue and green light, or allow it to pass through, and they reflect the red wavelengths of light which is why our eyes see those surfaces as red.  

We can only assume that the buyer paired Yuki's head on a brand new F3 body. In which case, the difference in color tone will without a doubt be different. May just be a common misconception that all body releases are of the same tone with some folks without seeing older releases for comparison.

It's hard to argue from OP's pics that there's any yellowing on the head. But may be different when examined in person? Vinyl does yellow overtime, though in most cases with DD, it's hardly noticeable. Any sign of "yellowing" or differences in tone, I'd first chalk it up to the different formula used in the vinyl production between releases.

While DD yellowing does happen, it's more of the coating on the faceup that yellowed than the actual vinyl itself. I have a few heads that are more susceptible to yellowing than others; Saber V1, Saber Alter V1 and V2, Rin Tohsaka V1, are a few to note. Interestingly enough, a few other older heads do not have this yellowing issue or is much less apparent.

Edited July 4, 2021 by burokkori