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Roserolls

Azone Iris Collect dolls turning pink around eyes?

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Roserolls

This is kinda a strange question but I just saw another used Iris Collect doll that had this problem, and now I'm curious. Previously I saw this listing for an older Noix doll that had pink discoloration around her eyes, making her look sick. Since this doll is an older model, I assumed that it was due to aging or something, but today I saw this other listing for a Winter is coming Kano that had the same problem.

Does anyone know what causes this issue? The only other time I've seen pink discoloration on dolls, it was due to some bacteria that can be washed off with antibacterial soap, but I thought it was strange that both of these dolls only had the pink around their eyes. I haven't seen any Dollfie Dreams or other vinyl dolls turning pink either. Would there be any way to fix such a problem? I was surprised that despite the obvious discoloring, they weren't marked down a ton on Mandarake, so maybe it's fixable?

I would like to hear your thoughts and experiences with this, or any insight into why this would be happen!

 

Edit: there's also a Rino in the wind that has the same pink eyes! This listing says the makeup is bleeding due to age, but I feel like I would've been able to find people reporting this issue on here or other forums with their aging azones (or other vinyl dolls), but I couldn't find anything when I googled it (the only results that came up were other dolls whose eyes faded/turned colors from being left in direct sun for too long).

Edited by Roserolls
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Oculae

My guess is that it has something to do with the eye putty Azone or the dolls' prior owners used. Plasticizer in the putty could have leaked into the thinner face vinyl and changed its consistency or made it more absorbent, or it could have directly stained the head.

The placement of these stains look like approximately where eye putty would go, too.


tumblr_o9govtKpFv1v9twgko1_400.gif.eae368d3c0bfc2a75087167170705ec2.gifPlease ping me when replying!

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Tasuke

 

Eye Rosacea!!!!

 

it's just too bad about this... Iris Collects are the most beautiful 1/3 Anime-styled Dolls on the Market... IMO.

if i could afford to be into 1/3 Dolls... i would have easily owned at least two of them by now...

starting with a Custom Iris Collect-based Konomi Yuzuhara all my very own... My Wife


 

2020164095_ANightatKonomi12-18-23550px.Horizont..png.35eaba54e8b03fbe6a7f7cd252209e94.png

 

 

 

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mukyuu
On 10/13/2023 at 6:31 PM, Oculae said:

My guess is that it has something to do with the eye putty Azone or the dolls' prior owners used. Plasticizer in the putty could have leaked into the thinner face vinyl and changed its consistency or made it more absorbent, or it could have directly stained the head.

The placement of these stains look like approximately where eye putty would go, too.

Those dolls typically don't need eye putty unless you carve out the eye pockets they come with, which fit most 18/20mm Obitsu eyes and some smaller Volks eyes. My guess is that someone got one of those Tamiya blush palettes and went ham on their eyes trying to imitate igari makeup but it wasn't successful. 

You could probably rub the original faceup off and use some DD rescue cream to remove any stains.

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Roserolls

Very interesting to see others' theories about this! TBH I'm not so sure it's putty or blushing that causes this (although they certainly are possibilities) since I think Iris Collects don't need putty and the dolls all have their original eyes, and if it's a blushing mishap I think they would all have to be from the same person because 3 different people all doing the same exact thing to their Iris Collects' eyes and selling them to Mandarake would be a pretty big coincidence. I was curious to see if the dolls were all super old models and it could be an aging problem, but according to hobbysearch all 3 of them were released in 2017....the plot thickens...

I feel like 2017 wasn't so long ago that such severe disintegration of the vinyl/makeup would normally occur. My current theory is there was some type of manufacturing error on Azone/Obitsu's part (either with the vinyl or the paint used in the makeup) in 2017 that caused the bleeding or discoloration (and hopefully they fixed it bc if this happens to my Azone girls I'm gonna cry lol). HOWEVER, I've also seen someone on this forum that has an In the Wind Rino, and she appears to still be in tip top shape in the photos, so maybe it was just some bad batch errors for the dolls instead?

Either way, I'm kinda curious to see if the stains would come out with dream rescue cream or benzoyl peroxide...I'm almost tempted to buy one of them for myself to test, since even if it's a failure they could still rock a menhera-kei look lol. But alas, the Taishou Maid Kanos are coming out...

(Also I just looked at Mandarake again and there's yet ANOTHER Peaceful Day Noix with pink around her eyes, but to a much lesser extent! What on earth is going on here lol. I feel like I've stumbled onto some great dolly mystery 😭)

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ragnamuffin

The dolls are listed as unused, so unless the previous owners lied and the dolls actually were used, it can’t be putty (which these dolls can’t use anyway) or a custom faceup.

I tried searching for info in Japanese, but I couldn’t find anything. It’s probably a mix of the makeup reacting to a bad batch of vinyl. The only other thing that comes to mind is mold, but I don’t know why that would affect the eyes only. Maybe the workers that put these particular dolls together had some sort of bacteria or something on their hands when they inserted the eyes?

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Roserolls
1 hour ago, ragnamuffin said:

The dolls are listed as unused, so unless the previous owners lied and the dolls actually were used, it can’t be putty (which these dolls can’t use anyway) or a custom faceup.

I tried searching for info in Japanese, but I couldn’t find anything. It’s probably a mix of the makeup reacting to a bad batch of vinyl. The only other thing that comes to mind is mold, but I don’t know why that would affect the eyes only. Maybe the workers that put these particular dolls together had some sort of bacteria or something on their hands when they inserted the eyes?

The bacteria was my first thought when I saw the Noix as well, since the splotchy pink bacteria on plastic dolls is a known thing on doll forums. I think there was even a brief issue with Smart Dolls a couple years ago where dolls arrived with it from manufacturing/assembly. But when I saw that multiple dolls all had the same thing, and only in the eye area, I thought it wasn't as likely. However, since the dolls are all listed as unused maybe the possibility of it coming from the manufacturing/assembly is more likely? It might also have something to do with how the dolls were stored, like if they were kept in a damp, humid spot maybe?

I went looking through listings of Happiness Clover dolls to see if any of them had the same thing, but none of them had pink eye, which makes me think that maybe it is more likely to be the bacteria after all because why would the paint/plastic used on the Iris Collects react this way but not the ones on the Happiness Clovers? 🤔 Maybe the eye holes or insets for the Iris Collects were a better breeding ground for bacteria or something???
Very very curious indeed...

Either way, I hope everyone's Azones are safe from whatever the problem is! I'm starting to doubt that it's an aging or manufacturing issue causing bleeding because I feel like people would be posting more about it either on here or on Japanese sites if it was. If anyone sees anything else strange like this, please keep us updated!

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Cauldroness

Someone linked me to this thread, so I thought I'd pop in as the local Azone fanatic.

It's my personal belief that all 4 dolls came from the same owner, who attempted to alter their face-ups and/or stored the dolls incorrectly.

I have several Azones, including a Rino in the Wind *and* Kano Winter Coming, and I can confirm NONE of the have any sort of pink discoloration on their faces or anywhere else. I also own a Noix, although I have the 2018 version rather than the 2017 version. Her face is also in perfect condition.

I also have older Obitsus (Obitsu manufacturers the dolls for Azone) who also have no issues with "pinking" anywhere on their faces. My oldest two girls are both from 2015, one still with her original face-up and original eyes. Neither has any issues.

Although Mandarake lists the dolls as being in "unused" condition, this is obviously untrue. Azone boxes come with a plastic wrap around the box. When Mandarake gets truly unopened dolls, the postings just use the default sales photos instead of actual doll photos. I've noticed that Mandarake tends to use the "unused" label if the doll clothes bags are unopened, regardless of the condition of the doll.

I don't think this is the face-up "leaking" into the vinyl -- if that were true, the pink would extend up above the eyebrows, but it stops exactly at the eyebrows, which are done with the exact same type of paint (and often the same colors) as the face-up. Azones from this time period also have very minimal blushing (it's extremely faint) and only on their cheeks, not anywhere near the eye area, so it's not the blushing either.

It's also not eye putty; as others have stated, Obitsu/Azone dolls don't use eye putty. Eyes are held in place with vinyl eye "cups."

In addition, you'll notice that on all 4 dolls, the pink has a fairly harsh outer edge (towards the ears) but a very faded inner edge (towards the nose). If this were some reaction in the vinyl, it should have a faded edge all the way around from where it seeped into the vinyl.

Also, the Rino seems to have a strange shine around her eyes, which is very weird -- the vinyl is very matte and no gloss is used in their face-ups. Where is the shine coming from?

Finally, 3 of the 4 dolls have shoulder damage. Although shoulder damage is more common in DDs, it is pretty uncommon with Obitsu/Azone. I have never had an Azone/Obitsu with a broken shoulder, and I am am not gentle with my vinyl dolls. In fact, I've had to replace several hip joints due to breakage, but never a shoulder joint! (Truthfully, I don't think Mandarake should be calling dolls with shoulder joint damage "unused" as they clearly have been used.)

My best guess is that a single collector went on an Azone buying spree in 2017, buying all 4 dolls, and then altered them with blushing. Perhaps the shine on Rino is some sort of sealant they used. My other guess is that they were stored incorrectly, potentially with something over their eyes, that caused the discoloration. That owner also handled the dolls in a very particular way that resulted in shoulder joint damage, which is otherwise an uncommon issue and would be strange to see across multiple owners imho.

Whoever that owner is, they've been slowly selling their dolls to the Nagoya location (if you sort by date + include sold-out dolls, you can see these dolls were not sold all at one time, but rather with gaps of time between them). Two are at Nagoya, one is at Sahra (the warehouse), and one at Complex (Tokyo). Mandarake does move inventory around if they have too much of one thing at one location: for example, one Noix was kept at Nagoya and one moved to Complex, maybe because having two Noixs at Nagoya was too much Noix for one location. Maybe the Kano got moved to the warehouse because she's the least popular of the 4 and they didn't want her taking up display space at a walk-in store.

I don't believe this is a manufacturing issue. The 4 dolls were manufactured in 4 different waves; Obitsu would have had to have issues for the entirety of 2017 for it to impact all 4 models. But I have 2 dolls from 2017 with zero issues who were part of these manufacturing batches, and I've seen Azone girls at meet-ups from this time period who also do not have manufacturing issues. For example, one of my friends has an Azone Leviathan, also from 2017, that has no discoloration. Obitsu also only has one vinyl manufacturing location, so it's not like a "dolls from X location are fine by dolls from Y location are not" situation.

 

 

 

Edited by Cauldroness
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Lynn

For reference (from Mandarake):

Regarding Product Condition Descriptions

Sometimes items have single word descriptions for their conditions. Please use the following guide for more information on item conditions.
Unopened / Not Opened - The item is still sealed, the contents are unused, we have not checked the condition.
Box Resealed - The item has been opened by the manufacturer (usually for a quality check) and resealed, the contents are unused, we have not checked the condition.
Unused - The item has either been opened, or the manufacturer did not use anything to seal the package. The contents show no signs of use.
Opened - The item has been opened and has signs that it has been handled in someway. It may have minor scratches, stains etc.
Used - The item has been opened and has clear signs of use such as scratches, stains etc.

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BeyondTime
2 hours ago, Cauldroness said:

so I thought I'd pop in as the local Azone fanatic.

It's nice to see you pop in from time to time, your insights are invaluable, and it's good to know that you are ok. I worried a bit about the long time members who stopped posting here during the pandemic. 


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ragnamuffin
2 hours ago, Cauldroness said:

It's my personal belief that all 4 dolls came from the same owner, who attempted to alter their face-ups and/or stored the dolls incorrectly.

Normally I would think this was the most likely explanation, but it seems highly unlikely here given that the dolls are all at different stores in completely different locations.

Mandarake buys back goods in three ways: in-person sales where a customer brings the goods to a store, direct sales where an employee at the closest nearby store visits the customer’s house to buy the goods directly from them, and home delivery where the closest nearby store provides a box that the customer returns to a courier with the goods inside.

The latter two are only available at the closest nearby store since Mandarake foots the bill for transportation, and for the first method, realistically most people will only bring their stuff to sell to the closest store, especially given the size of these dolls.

So it seems more likely that they all came from different people, with the exception of the two in Nagoya. I’ve never heard of Mandarake shifting inventory around—I’ve had my eye on several items that have been at the same shop for several years now, and knowing how stingy Mandarake is, it’s unlikely that they would pay to move stuff around if they didn’t have to, especially since most of their sales are online now. The only exceptions I could think of is for a new store opening or a sales event at a specific store, but those are quite rare.

Also, as @Lynn pointed out, unopened (未開封) and unused (未使用) are two different designations. Whether it gets marked as unused depends on self-declaration from the original owner and how well Mandarake’s employees inspected the doll (Dollyteria frequently lists things as unused when they have clearly been used, so it’s not a foolproof system 😂).

3 hours ago, Cauldroness said:

That owner also handled the dolls in a very particular way that resulted in shoulder joint damage, which is otherwise an uncommon issue and would be strange to see across multiple owners imho.

I think this is a bit of a stretch. Most of the Azone dolls on Mandarake have shoulder damage—it’s the second most common issue with Obitsu dolls after the ankle joint breaking. The internal frame is a harder plastic that cracks easily from expanding and shrinking due to fluctuating temperatures, leading to even some unopened dolls having a cracked frame ☹️

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Galvatim

Could it be that the previous owner(s) placed their thumbs directly on the eyes/face-up to pop them out, and skin oils lead to discoloration?  I don't put much stock in Manda's used/unused ratings, especially with dolls like this that can be opened easily.  The dolls could be removed, played with/posed/etc., and replaced, with the outfit being unopened.  

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Cauldroness

Adding to the mystery, I found a Yahoo!Japan auction with the pink staining on the eye area:

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d1108929892

This is a Kano Winter Coming, same as one of the Mandarake models.

According to the auction, the head was removed and stored in a dark place after purchase. This is not the same Kano as from Mandarake, as the staining around the eyes is a different shape (Manda the staining reached the eyesbrows, Y!J it stops below the eyebrows).

Plus, the auction include images of inside the head, and a few things are visible: (1) no eye putty was used, (2) the pinking is not affecting the interior of the vinyl, and (3) it has the same sharp outer edge / faded inner edge as the Manda listing, so whatever it is, it's the same issue.

So it's likely not a single owner, but now I'm thinking it's a potential storage issue (maybe off-gassing fumes in a tight, enclosed space?).

I checked the Angel Philia thread on DoA (411 comments), and couldn't find a single mention of pink staining around the eyes. I did the same with two Obitsu threads (1005 and 580 comments, respectively), and no mention of pink staining around the eyes either. A general search of the whole forum also revealed no pink staining reports not related to pink/red clothing. I also checked four discord servers focused on vinyl dolls (largest: 1,457 members), and still nada save for mention of a few dolls suffering from the pink bacteria, which looks quite different from these dolls. And, of course, my own dolls do not have the issue -- but they've been on display since I got them, except for a brief period of a few months when I moved.

So, uh, maybe store your 2017 Azone dolls in a way where the faces are ventilated (so not in a closed box or bag)?

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Cauldroness
19 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

It's nice to see you pop in from time to time, your insights are invaluable, and it's good to know that you are ok. I worried a bit about the long time members who stopped posting here during the pandemic. 

Thank you! My hobbies tend to rotate. I was on a resin doll kick for several years, then vinyl dolls, and it's recently swung back to resin. It'll rotate back to vinyl, it's just a matter of time (*cough*azonemakeanewhead*azone).

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BeyondTime
1 hour ago, Cauldroness said:

I was on a resin doll kick for several years, then vinyl dolls, and it's recently swung back to resin.

Totally understandable, resins are awesome, but then so are Iris Collects. I fell for a Sumire they released in Dec 2021, but I haven't been able to find her used. 

--

To get back on-topic, I have had zero issues with discoloration on any of my Azones. My 2014 release Azones color match newly purchased option parts without any noticeable difference. 


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Roserolls

Oh my god I love this. I feel like we're in some kind of detective/court drama lol. @Cauldroness you should be a lawyer, your analysis was amazing! I was fully convinced that it was the same owner until you found the yahoo japan listing 😅. I just tried googling about it in Japanese too, and I came up with even more pink eye vicitms from Suruga-ya! I found THREE more Peaceful Day Noixs (123) AND In the Wind Rino, as well as 2 Sunshine Vacation Noixs (Doll 1 and Doll 2, doll 2 has it REALLY bad she straight up looks sunburnt   😭). Weirdly, all of the dolls found so far have specifically been Iris Collects from 2017, with the exception of these 2 Sunshine Vacation Noixs, who are from 2018. All of these listings are listed as damaged and describe it as "color transfer" on the face (but for some reason aren't heavily discounted??? How can they seriously want 61,000 yen for a doll whose face is almost all pink?!)

This is bringing me back to my theory that something may be up with the manufacturing of the Iris Collects from 2017-2018? Obviously it's not something that affects all dolls, since as Cauldroness said, their Rino, Kano, and 2018 Noix are unaffected. But I feel like the fact that there's now been 11 dolls found with the same pink staining around their eyes is just too coincidental for it to be the pink bacteria, diy face-up fails, oil stains, or stains from something red...The only thing I can think of is that improper storage caused something in the plastic/paint to either break down or release gases that caused it?🤔

I've never seen something like this before outside of defective product batches or something, it's really wild. The rabbit hole just keeps going deeper...

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Tasuke

i feel bad for owners of these Adorable Girls...

for their sake, at the very least, i pray this is but an isolated Anomaly stemming from user-customization or the like...


 

2020164095_ANightatKonomi12-18-23550px.Horizont..png.35eaba54e8b03fbe6a7f7cd252209e94.png

 

 

 

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Cauldroness

Adding to the weirdness, my 2018 Noix is specifically the Sunshine Vacation Noix. She, like my other Azones, is in perfect condition -- no signs of pink.

(I keep double-checking my dolls out of paranoia that I'm missing some faint sign of pink, but there's definitely no pink.)

Since all of these dolls have their original eyes, my guess is the problem has to do with the eyes. I did pull out and check my Obitsu eyes, and they do have a coating of some sort on the front. Maybe that's what's off-gassing?

It'd explain why the pinking doesn't seem to appear inside the head, as the coating on the eyes is only in the front, but not on the back. (Or maybe it's a specifically a reaction between off-gassing from the eye coating and the face-up chemicals?)

Then, if the dolls are kept in a closed storage space (like a sealed plastic bag), that gas isn't able to escape and penetrates the vinyl?

There could also be a heat factor... 

Perhaps the varying degrees of pink are caused by how long each doll was in storage + how tightly sealed that storage was + how hot the storage got?

It seems like the original eyes by themselves aren't the problem. Although I do tend to change the eyes on my dolls, my 2016 Obitsu girl has her original eyes and has never had any other eyes in. And it's definitely not the original face-ups by themselves, as my Noix, Kano, and Rino all sport their original face-ups.

At this point, if you own an Azones, I'd say: Do not put them in storage at all. Keep them in open air with good ventilation. If they have to be stored, remove the eyes before putting them in storage.

(Sadly, I think the Noix are discounted. In perfect condition, I've seen those models go as high as $800-$900.)

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Roserolls
On 10/16/2023 at 11:30 AM, Cauldroness said:

Adding to the weirdness, my 2018 Noix is specifically the Sunshine Vacation Noix. She, like my other Azones, is in perfect condition -- no signs of pink.

(I keep double-checking my dolls out of paranoia that I'm missing some faint sign of pink, but there's definitely no pink.)

Since all of these dolls have their original eyes, my guess is the problem has to do with the eyes. I did pull out and check my Obitsu eyes, and they do have a coating of some sort on the front. Maybe that's what's off-gassing?

It'd explain why the pinking doesn't seem to appear inside the head, as the coating on the eyes is only in the front, but not on the back. (Or maybe it's a specifically a reaction between off-gassing from the eye coating and the face-up chemicals?)

Then, if the dolls are kept in a closed storage space (like a sealed plastic bag), that gas isn't able to escape and penetrates the vinyl?

There could also be a heat factor... 

Perhaps the varying degrees of pink are caused by how long each doll was in storage + how tightly sealed that storage was + how hot the storage got?

It seems like the original eyes by themselves aren't the problem. Although I do tend to change the eyes on my dolls, my 2016 Obitsu girl has her original eyes and has never had any other eyes in. And it's definitely not the original face-ups by themselves, as my Noix, Kano, and Rino all sport their original face-ups.

At this point, if you own an Azones, I'd say: Do not put them in storage at all. Keep them in open air with good ventilation. If they have to be stored, remove the eyes before putting them in storage.

(Sadly, I think the Noix are discounted. In perfect condition, I've seen those models go as high as $800-$900.)

I think the eyes are probably the most likely culprit at this point. It would explain why the Happiness Clover models have all been fine, as well as why other non-Azone Obitsus (or other vinyl dolls in general) with inset eyes are fine. There might be something different about the front coating of Iris Collect eyes that might cause this when in un-ventilated storage or in humidity/heat. Still weird that we've only found 2017/2018 models that were affected though.

I hope dolls displayed normally will be fine in the long run, since the Iris Collects have such gorgeous default eyes that I don't want to have to change them out! 😭

I also wonder if the pinking can be stopped after it's already begun by removing the eyes or taking them from storage, or if it will slowly continue to turn pink once it starts. The 2nd Rino and one of the Noixs didn't have it too bad, if I didn't see the other models I probably wouldn't have even noticed that their eyes had the pink (it actually looks kinda cute when it's just a little lol). I also wonder if normal stain removal methods would be able to remove/reduce the pinking...

I'm going to be selling my Winter Date Kano soon, and was considering replacing her with a Winter Coming Kano instead (that doesn't have the pink eye problem listed) if I can find one for cheap, and possibly trying to run some tests/experiments to see if I can replicate the pinking and try to stop/remove it. This whole thing has really sparked my curiosity and I hope that my other Azones won't start disintegrating, especially since I might have to move to a much hotter and humid state in the next couple of years...

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ragnamuffin

I randomly came across a Twitter post about this very issue while searching for something else tonight:

https://x.com/mnp_x7/status/1167051450112851969

So this issue is not exclusive to Azone heads, as the other head in this post is the Dollce Mint head. If the issue is indeed the vinyl, then it has (had?) something to do with Obitsu’s formula.

Some users speculate that it’s chemical pinking or discoloring from the plasticizer not being able to off-gas due to being kept sealed in a dark, poorly ventilated, high-alkaline environment.

Another user said it may have to do with the coating/release agent used on the eyes.

The good news is that this is easily fixed by leaving the head out in the sun. OP said they left the heads out for four hours in the summer sun, but speculated that an affected head may need more time in the winter.

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Roserolls
On 10/18/2023 at 10:53 AM, ragnamuffin said:

I randomly came across a Twitter post about this very issue while searching for something else tonight:

https://x.com/mnp_x7/status/1167051450112851969

So this issue is not exclusive to Azone heads, as the other head in this post is the Dollce Mint head. If the issue is indeed the vinyl, then it has (had?) something to do with Obitsu’s formula.

Some users speculate that it’s chemical pinking or discoloring from the plasticizer not being able to off-gas due to being kept sealed in a dark, poorly ventilated, high-alkaline environment.

Another user said it may have to do with the coating/release agent used on the eyes.

The good news is that this is easily fixed by leaving the head out in the sun. OP said they left the heads out for four hours in the summer sun, but speculated that an affected head may need more time in the winter.

Oh wow! Thank you for finding that tweet! I'm shocked but also happy to know that it has such an easy fix! I can rest easy about my Azone girls now lol.

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Cauldroness

Oh, now that's an interesting find. I think Dollce, like Azones, uses eyes manufactured by Obitsu? Those certainly look like Obitsu eyes in the affected Dollce Mint.

Since we're only seeing the pinking around the eyes, and so far we've only found cases with the open-eyed models (particularly those with Obitsu eyes), to me that makes it even more likely that it has something to do with the combo of Obitsu eyes + Obitsu vinyl + storage conditions.

Glad to know it can be resolved so easily!

And it seems like prevention is as easy as not putting the dolls in sealed storage.

 

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mukyuu
On 10/16/2023 at 8:30 PM, Cauldroness said:

 

Since all of these dolls have their original eyes, my guess is the problem has to do with the eyes. I did pull out and check my Obitsu eyes, and they do have a coating of some sort on the front. Maybe that's what's off-gassing?

That's insane and also a huge bummer because handmade eyes generally don't fit them and really the only eyes you can buy that fit them are Obitsu. Smaller volks eyes are so far inbetween and they generally are too big to fit inside the Azone heads. 

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asukakanea

so my nowa has this problem. I just got her in October, but I knew about this when I bought her. mandrake said that the staining and also shoulder damage was due to the doll being in the box because it was in there for so long and the vinly gasses expanded and cause leaking and cracking.

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sunlightandtea
On 10/15/2023 at 11:49 PM, Roserolls said:

Oh my god I love this. I feel like we're in some kind of detective/court drama lol.

I was just about to post that! This is a fascinating thread, thank you all for your insight!

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