High-priced custom faceup heads

Okay, this might be a stupid topic, but... what's the deal with the very expensive custom faceup heads on Y!A?

Is it about wanting a piece from that™ artist, and not the work itself?
Are they infused with gold? Laced with drugs? Money laundering? Charity?
Like 3k for custom faceups, with minor to no modifications to the head - I don't get it (especially when others, looking just as good if not better, go for some 100 dollars).

So are any of you more knowledgeable in the field of why they end up going for so much?

The custom head scene has been always a little weird, and id wager that for the most part its about getting a piece of someone's brand.

I remember way back when, there used to be this one person putting out highly expressive heads for sale on YJA, but with the catch that they would only put the images up during the last few days of the auction, and before that the bid had already racked up to sometimes over 300$ even before anybody had even seen what they were bidding on. But their work was top notch, so they had some merit for the end prices.

Although if we are talking strictly about YJA shinenigans, bidding wars can be a thing if you find two people with unlimited budgets wanting "The next head from artist X" With the result of this further inflating the value of artist X's stuff.

But the real test of value would be the second hand market, that does the price still hold up when one of these heads end up at say Mandarake or goes back to the auction block. Some seem to sell for relatively high asking prices, but some dont.

But like you mentioned shopping around you can find pretty nice stuff for a lot less from lesser known people. Not so long ago got a pair of heads that had excellent craftmanship for 130 and 180$.

 

Although I do remember one personal conversation many years ago that went along the lines: "Why do you buy so many non-custom character dolls, instead of one (or few) very expensive custom?" -- so there is that kind of viewpoint out there as well.

 

Edited Monday at 02:05 PM by finnleo

basically reiterating the points finnleo made, but as someone who follows the jp dollfie scene on twitter, it definitely seems like certain faceup artists just gain a cult following that leads their auctioned heads to consitently go for 100,000-200,000 jpy... even in the aftermarket, there are artists whose heads don't seem to lose their value/go up (m.t*/mikan tachibana is an example, i've seen her heads on dollyteria for 100,000 or more ;;w;; also mil*co/mocha milco... i want one of her heads so bad but i would never be able to justify spending that much on a doll head) 

it is kind of spirit crushing though, lol... for the past month or so i've been doing this thing where if a jp doll artist posts an auc for a head i like, i save it in a tab just to see how much the winning bid ends up being. they've all ended way out of any theoretical budget i might have though, always somewhere between 500-1500 usd

but yeah, i think it is a combination of the heads being very cute & professionally painted, but also because these artists have large fanbases that are willing to drop that much to have one (or sometimes multiple)

Edited Monday at 03:26 PM by cluffy

2 hours ago, Yumeiro said:

Like 3k for custom faceups, with minor to no modifications to the head - I don't get it (especially when others, looking just as good if not better, go for some 100 dollars).

Not sure which heads you’re looking at, but most of the ones that go for insane prices are heavily modded. The heads that command the highest prices are almost always DDH-01, which have to have the eyelids and mouth sanded down to appeal to JP collectors. Open mouth mods usually push the price higher because opening the mouth and making mouth parts (with usually include teeth and tongue) is even more work.

Japanese people are generally sticklers for perfection, and buyers of these heads are looking for perfectly symmetrical eyebrows and eyelashes that are detailed and which incorporate multiple colours and hues.

If you’ve never seen one of these in person you probably have no idea how much work and craftsmanship goes into them. The heads that go for $100 or less do so because the artist either doesn’t have the skill to command higher prices or they aren’t well-known yet. Artists that have the skill but not the prestige tend to go viral within a few months of posting heads as people become familiar with their work. I’ve seen it happen many times. Good quality faceup artists don’t remain cheap for long.

24 minutes ago, cluffy said:

basically reiterating the points finnleo made, but as someone who follows the jp dollfie scene on twitter, it definitely seems like certain faceup artists just gain a cult following that leads their auctioned heads to consitently go for 100,000-200,000 jpy... even in the aftermarket, there are artists whose heads don't seem to lose their value/go up (m.t*/mikan tachibana is an example, i've seen her heads on dollyteria for 100,000 or more ;;w;; also mil*co/mocha milco... i want one of her heads so bad but i would never be able to justify spending that much on a doll head) 

it is kind of spirit crushing though, lol... for the past month or so i've been doing this thing where if a jp doll artist posts an auc for a head i like, i save it in a tab just to see how much the winning bid ends up being. they've all ended way out of any theoretical budget i might have though, always somewhere between 500-1500 usd

but yeah, i think it is a combination of the heads being very cute & professionally painted, but also because these artists have large fanbases that are willing to drop that much to have one (or sometimes multiple)

God, I always think of that one m.t* head that went for over 2mil yen. 😭 Some people just have money.

I've seen a lot of nicely done modded faceups go for the lowish range (below 50,000 yen) but even if the quality is good it doesn't mean the style is the same. Even in illustration people who draw similarly will still have unique markers and design choices that make their work distinct, so it's the same for doll faceups. If you have the money for a $$$ head and love the artist's designs and style, it's better to get what you want exactly and to support the specific artist you love, provided that you can afford it of course. Likewise, popular and expensive artist doesn't mean it's the style you prefer either, you might love someone who's work goes for lower.

It also depends on if somebody else really wants the head or not, I've seen some artist heads go for 20,000 yen one week then 80,000 yen the next, likely due to bid wars. Personally I'd never pay more than a couple hundred dollars for a head since I'd feel anxious handling it after a certain price point.

2 hours ago, ragnamuffin said:

Not sure which heads you’re looking at, but most of the ones that go for insane prices are heavily modded.

Which is why I'm confused over the high end-price of those that are not.

2 hours ago, Yumeiro said:

Which is why I'm confused over the high end-price of those that are not.

Sometimes it's just a case of people wanting something now, and them having the money for it. Certain types of face up also command high prices.

With auctions for other stuff you see the same things. I've bought a few custom MDD-size quad tails off Y!Auctions Japan, and it took a while before I found the colours I wanted for a decent price. Some of them went for 30,000 to 40,000 yen (I think the highest I've seen was around 60,000), only for the same design from the same manufacturer to sell for 12,000-15,000 a few weeks later. You can also order some of those tails from the manufacturer's website, and then they cost 25,000 yen max for a DD size nine tail, so considerably cheaper.

Other times some popular Youtuber did a review of an item, and the result is hugely inflated prices for a while, e.g. an obscure action figure that normally sells for 2,500 yen second hand selling for an insane 50,000 yen (that one made me pause).

You'll also notice that auctions that start really low tend to end (much) higher than auctions that start relatively high. 

 

8 hours ago, Yumeiro said:

Which is why I'm confused over the high end-price of those that are not.

My point is that there are things about these expensive heads that you're not seeing which make them valuable—mods (even light ones you don't notice), symmetry, detailed eyelashes, an overall aesthetic that appeals to JP collectors, and most importantly, the artist's brand name. Most heads only come with a pair of eyes or two, but some come with wigs and/or clothes that drive the price up. Sometimes the eyes are also part of the value because some artists limit certain eye designs to their custom heads, or don't make eyes at all outside of the custom heads they sell.

The heads that sell for cheap rarely even come close in quality to the ones that command these insane prices. I've tried looking for cheap but good quality heads many, many times, and they're incredibly rare. If the artist is any good, their heads won't stay cheap for long.

Oh yeah, names like Sealand and Little Lady Makeup come to mind instantly. Their work is absolutely stunning and deserving of a high price, but the way the prices climb for the ones with a cult following like these two for example is just insane. Truly a luxury few can afford.

I do agree though that I sometimes see heads where I wonder why they reach that high or why the artist has this kind of following. And with that I mean heads with no special extras, no real additive or reductive mods and VERY simple expressions. Most often the tiny dot-like mouth. I can only assume that that is an example of it fitting the taste of the Japanese collectors very well.

But it is quite the interesting topic, indeed.

I do also wonder how the hype builds so much around face up artists. Does word just get around that they're good quality? I know there is a barrier since most of these artists are overseas, but is there some site where they are listed so you can see a lot of their work? 

20 minutes ago, Giragira said:

I do also wonder how the hype builds so much around face up artists. Does word just get around that they're good quality? I know there is a barrier since most of these artists are overseas, but is there some site where they are listed so you can see a lot of their work? 

Twitter. Some artists used to post their work on their personal blogs, but nowadays the JP doll scene is pretty much exclusively on Twitter. Occasionally there are artists with no social media presence (like Sarara), and idk how they manage to gain a following, but I suspect a lot of collectors 'scout' artists by just browsing YJA for heads and keeping track of high quality artists.

10 hours ago, ragnamuffin said:

there are things about these expensive heads that you're not seeing

Except Yumeiro brings up a very good question, since nobody was ever questioning base craftmanship or artistry?

That at what point do we go from an artists base raw talent being worth something, brand recognition adding to this, to a possible auction house bidding frenzy that might as well be fueled by some bidders personal motivation to have the most expensive item from an artist moving the end price into silly territory, and in this perticular niché case you can start asking the question, that does this actually add to the actual value of an arists products versus what you can find elsewhere.

Coming in and saying "Oh you just dont get it" seems a little condescending to me.

Yes, there is a base value in hand crafted items, but at some point especially with bidding house shinenigans one has to wonder "Is that actually worth that much?" -- and yes while I still had access to YJA (not anymore since they blocked EU) I had to ask this myself a few times, since there are faceup trends I dont approove of, but that again is a me issue, that I recognize.

 

1 hour ago, finnleo said:

Except Yumeiro brings up a very good question, since nobody was ever questioning base craftmanship or artistry?

It seemed to me that this line is in fact questioning the craftsmanship/artistry:

Quote

(especially when others, looking just as good if not better, go for some 100 dollars)

This just doesn't really happen. You're free to think the heads that go for $2000-3000 aren't worth the price, but the heads that go for $100 don't look anything like the ones that go for $500 and up. Nobody is paying these silly prices for amateur work.

1 hour ago, finnleo said:

Yes, there is a base value in hand crafted items, but at some point especially with bidding house shinenigans one has to wonder "Is that actually worth that much?" -- and yes while I still had access to YJA (not anymore since they blocked EU) I had to ask this myself a few times, since there are faceup trends I dont approove of, but that again is a me issue, that I recognize.

We could speculate all day about whether it's the craftsmanship, artistry, brand recognition, etc. that pushes the price up to insane heights, but in the end, the answer is "because someone who could afford it wanted it". Like others have mentioned, even artists whose heads sell for these crazy prices have ups and downs, so the head just has to appeal to someone with deep enough pockets to get into a bidding war for it.

I do think there's a bit of a cultural element to this—Japanese people tend to go hard with their hobbies, and there is this kind of old timey patron-like relationship between artist and collector, so they're more willing to spend outrageous amounts of money to "support" the artist (not just their work, but also their lifestyle). Many artists will form personal relationships with these collectors and give them special benefits normal people don't have access to, so that alone is probably worth it to a lot of collectors, besides the prestige of owning a one-of-a-kind custom head from their favourite artist.

2 hours ago, ragnamuffin said:

besides the prestige of owning a one-of-a-kind custom head from their favourite artist.

And you can have a similar kind of experience for about 120 or 180$ which is what I did with these two (and yes, they were bought from mandarake, but some twitter research makes me think they were a consignment sale since the prices were exactly what the artist had tried to sell them at Volks Nagoya a few years earlier):

Spoiler

Yes, they are from an artist I didnt know about before, but their style of doing thicc white eyebrows was just what I was looking for at the time, and I will be the first to say these arent at the 1000$ level, but im still pinching myself about the one of the right because there is some insane details for this price point. But just to show that not all 100-200$ range heads are created equal.

I think that the high priced artists do wonderful quality, but I will add that artists are notorious for undercharging for their services, be they doll artists, sculptors, illustrators, etc. I think it's entirely possible to have a equal or similar quality head for a lesser price, especially if the artist is lesser known.

7 hours ago, finnleo said:

and yes, they were bought from mandarake

This is a whole other can of worms because there’s a huge taboo against selling heads for more than they were purchased for, and a lot of artists won’t service heads that were acquired secondhand, but with all due respect, those faceups (as nice as they are) are not particularly complex and are what I would expect at that price point.

Just from being in general art spaces I can say pretty confidently that past a certain price point (and that price point is often lower than one may think) popularity and price has very little correlation to an artist's skill or craftsmanship. That's not to say that popular and successful artists aren't exceptionally talented, but that there are artists whose work doesn't sell nearly as well despite being equivalent in skill and craftsmanship.

If I had to guess, I'd say that it's a combination of style, presentation, branding, and luck. Specifically I'm willing to bet promotional styling and photography might be a factor-- selling a skillful and beautiful faceup is one thing, selling a charming and widely appealing character that makes people ravenously *have* to adopt her is a whole different skill set.