The Facebook debacle & other issues

1 hour ago, LuluChan said:

with no sarcasm

Im half biased to say that the methods chosen for the QC is the sarcasm here. But fair enough, jump-jet assisted steps taken for quality control and all.

1 hour ago, LuluChan said:

Well, personally, I loved that post from Danny. It was something that someone from the community made a post about, asking/complaining about it. And I think he handled it really well. He aknowledged it, with no sarcasm or blaming the customer or whatever, and he said they would try to do better. So yeah. Good for him, that was the correct way to handle it. 

He's been posting less on Insta the past few weeks (before he was posting like everyday), so maybe he took a social media break and rethought how he's been handling things? Which is good - as much as I liked seeing all the stuff they were working on, it was probably stressing him out more to post every day and then read all the comments with legit and not-legit criticisms. Stepping back might have given him some perspective.

Re: clothing costs; I think the other problem driving up costs is his insistence on using only super-high-quality materials from smaller local businesses that he personally approves of. Not to say that he should make everything out of cheap stuff, but...well, to use an analogy, it's like George Lucas going back and re-editing Star Wars years after the films came out over and over again because he personally didn't like bits of it even though the general fandom didn't have a problem with them. I think DC has a weird streak of perfectionism and wabi-sabi is the only way he can excuse making products that aren't perfect, otherwise he'd never be able to release anything. Or something like that.

 

I think he also relies on the community a lot to make other styles of clothing that people want, which...doesn't really bother me? Coming from the resin community, there are plenty of resin dolls with unique body shapes whose companies don't or can't afford to make/sell multiple types of clothing for them - you only have to look up "minifee" or "iplehouse eid" on etsy to see that. If you've only ever dealt with Dollfie Dream or Smart Doll, I can see how Volks' wide variety of clothes and styles would have you absolutly spoiled for choice (heck, even Obitsu/Parabox has a decent selection); but in the resin world, companies like Volks are the exception to the rule and there are entire companies who just make clothing for other companies' dolls and do pretty well for themselves.

If DC was being elitest about people who dress their SmD in non-SmD brand clothing or styles he doesn't like, then it would be a problem. But he's always been good about supporting people in the community selling SmD clothes as far as I can tell. He can compete with Volks in number and style of dolls, but not in variety or volume of clothing - and that's okay! He shouldn't be trying to compete with them on everything! That's even more unhealthy!

Aaaaand that's enough rambling from me today.

Edited November 16, 2020 by monkeypizzasonic

I was gonna post something salty, but I've given up on the idea that safety concerns with Smart Dolls and small children will get taken seriously. -_-

5 hours ago, Katsudon said:

I was gonna post something salty, but I've given up on the idea that safety concerns with Smart Dolls and small children will get taken seriously. -_-

It depends how young. I wasn’t really alarmed before (maybe a bit confused though) seeing young children with the dolls before, but the recent photo on his insta with a girl who looks barely even 2 years old sets off major alarm bells. These things are made of choking hazards. 
Maybe if parents were definitely going to supervise the kid with the doll...but I was under the impression that marketing any toy to children (especially that young) requires actual certification for it that CJ may or may not actually have.

Unless it’s a loophole, given that they aren’t ‘technically’ advertising explicitly for young children. Edit: and the fact that they’re based in Japan, I am unsure what their guidelines are for this.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Monty

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHsdWJRBJum/

The post, for people who are curious. (figured it was gonna show up here eventually)

13 hours ago, Monty said:

It depends how young. I wasn’t really alarmed before (maybe a bit confused though) seeing young children with the dolls before, but the recent photo on his insta with a girl who looks barely even 2 years old sets off major alarm bells. These things are made of choking hazards. 
Maybe if parents were definitely going to supervise the kid with the doll...but I was under the impression that marketing any toy to children (especially that young) requires actual certification for it that CJ may or may not actually have.

Unless it’s a loophole, given that they aren’t ‘technically’ advertising explicitly for young children. Edit: and the fact that they’re based in Japan, I am unsure what their guidelines are for this.

Chiming in here with what I do know regarding marketing toys to children. To my knowledge, ST compliance is voluntary within Japan (maybe someone else can elaborate on that, as I'm not super familiar with their laws). However, if importing the toy into the US it would be subject to the US consumer laws regarding toys marketing to children per the CPSIA. Anything marketed to kids considered to be toddlers (5 years and under) that has small parts has to include choking hazard warnings. If it's not suitable for an age group it should be stated as such "not recommended for children under xx age. Poses xx hazard." etc. The toy also has to have a CPC certificate to legally be sold in the US to children. Children are considered anyone 12 years or younger.

To use Volks as an example, since they use messaging stating that their products are for 15 and older clears them of any of these toy safety regulations.

3 hours ago, hats said:

 The toy also has to have a CPC certificate to legally be sold in the US to children. Children are considered anyone 12 years or younger.

To use Volks as an example, since they use messaging stating that their products are for 15 and older clears them of any of these toy safety regulations.

It's similar in the EU, where anything for kids needs a CE mark and to pass various tests. Though children are considered anyone under the age of 14.

There is a specific exemption for dolls aimed at adults, which will be why companies like Volks put an age limit. That way they aren't liable, and can't be fined for dodging the regulations. (It's one thing if a kid gets hold of a collectable and an accident happens, and a lawsuit if it's a toy. I don't know the law in Japan, but I presume they have a toy regulatory body too, mostly because of the Volks age warning.)

I almost didn't want to say anything, because I worry that dolls will stop being sold out of spite. And then within the first 2 hours of the day I had to tell my older-than-that-pic toddler to stop putting things in their mouth 3 times. -_-; Toddlers are a force of nature - they do whatever and have no real idea about consequences. I know it's not just my kid, because I watched my friend go through the same stuff several months ago.

I don't think they can claim to not be advertising to children, as they say Smart Dolls are for kids, and also are using pictures of children with dolls in their marketing.

Edit: info on regulations in Japan https://www.sgs.com/en/consumer-goods-retail/toys-and-juvenile-products/toys/global-toy-safety-requirements/japan-toy-st-certification#:~:text=Consumer Goods and Retail Japan – Toy ST Certification&text=JFSL is a legislative mandatory,to the age of 14. Like the EU it's to age 14. So to legally sell to kids, Smart Doll needs to submit every model they make for lab tests in at least 3 different regulatory bodies? Unless the labs have certification in more than 1 territory, which seems unlikely to me, because bureaucracy is never simple.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Katsudon
Regulations

7 minutes ago, Katsudon said:

It's similar in the EU, where anything for kids needs a CE mark and to pass various tests. Though children are considered anyone under the age of 14.

There is a specific exemption for dolls aimed at adults, which will be why companies like Volks put an age limit. That way they aren't liable, and can't be fined for dodging the regulations. (It's one thing if a kid gets hold of a collectable and an accident happens, and a lawsuit if it's a toy. I don't know the law in Japan, but I presume they have a toy regulatory body too, mostly because of the Volks age warning.)

I almost didn't want to say anything, because I worry that dolls will stop being sold out of spite. And then within the first 2 hours of the day I had to tell my older-than-that-pic toddler to stop putting things in their mouth 3 times. -_-; Toddlers are a force of nature - they do whatever and have no real idea about consequences.

I don't think they can claim to not be advertising to children, as they say Smart Dolls are for kids, and also are using pictures of children with dolls in their marketing.

I do know as far as the US laws are concerned, it doesn't matter where the product is manufactured, to be sold/marketed as a toy to children they are subject to those laws and testing. They can get in big trouble otherwise.

On a side note.. the images of toddler next to a $500 doll gives me so much anxiety. They really can be a force to be reckoned with 😅

Just a bit of reminder that, i believe the bulk of culture japans sales are exports to private individuals, where all regional sales sertification needs sort of go out the window, as long as they are not made of a controlled and or restricted substance where you'd get customs involment.

At least in my country the importer takes responsobility that the item is fit for purpose, not the offshore seller.

So based on that, as long as CJ keeps the japanese local end happy (Since I dont think he ever did open that store in america?) its all good and dandy as far as they are concerned.

that image needs a voice over though:

SMD in a Fran Drescher voice: "Uuuh, hey there ... could we, like ... keep this to just a bad hair day level?"

beebee: HOOOOOO! RATLEEEEEERRRR!

SMD: uuuh, you listening...?

Beebee while grabbing the smd: "HULK SMAAAAAAASH!"

SMD: "At least im still under warrenty .... I think..."

Beebee: "BAM! BAM!"

I hate to say it, but the images of $500 dolls next to toddlers and young children have me cringing hardcore. I feel like CJ are trying to tout themselves as something super kid-friendly, and these dolls really aren't, never-mind the price point. 😬

Personally, I feel that the dolls are not being marketed towards children, but the parents of children. This is purely my own conjecture, but the impression I get from all the photos of children posing with their dolls is hey look, these kids have nice enough parents to buy them their own smartdolls, will you be a good parent like theirs and buy one for your children too? Children are also more impressionable, and seeing those photos might very well start thoughts along the lines of how come XYZ's parents can buy her a $500 doll, but you can't?

Case in point, a parent just posted in one of the smartdoll groups about their dilemma wrt buying a smartdoll for their 10yo, who was asking for one. They felt that a $500 doll was much too expensive for a child, and they had 3 children. Most of the suggestions brought up Obitsu as an alternative, but there was this one person who started saying that no, if their daughter asked for a smartdoll and received an Obitsu, then she would be so disappointed, and that it would be better to help her save up for a smartdoll. They went on to talk about how they had wanted a particular AG doll for Christmas, but their parents bought them another AG doll, and they were so utterly disappointed. I feel that this marketing towards children puts pressure on their parents, which can really make a difference for those who are not so well off.

Edited November 19, 2020 by bbotss

28 minutes ago, bbotss said:

Personally, I feel that the dolls are not being marketed towards children, but the parents of children. This is purely my own conjecture, but the impression I get from all the photos of children posing with their dolls is hey look, these kids have nice enough parents to buy them their own smartdolls, will you be a good parent like theirs and buy one for your children too? Children are also more impressionable, and seeing those photos might very well start thoughts along the lines of how come XYZ's parents can buy her a $500 doll, but you can't?

Case in point, a parent just posted in one of the smartdoll groups about their dilemma wrt buying a smartdoll for their 10yo, who was asking for one. They felt that a $500 doll was much too expensive for a child, and they had 3 children. Most of the suggestions brought up Obitsu as an alternative, but there was this one person who started saying that no, if their daughter asked for a smartdoll and received an Obitsu, then she would be so disappointed, and that it would be better to help her save up for a smartdoll. They went on to talk about how they had wanted a particular AG doll for Christmas, but their parents bought them another AG doll, and they were so utterly disappointed. I feel that this marketing towards children puts pressure on their parents, which can really make a difference for those who are not so well off.

I mean.. it is stated on the SMD website that 80% of the dolls sold are for children (so they claim). So that right there says who their assumed target is. At least from a professional marketers point of view. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by hats

On 11/17/2020 at 6:46 PM, Katsudon said:

I was gonna post something salty, but I've given up on the idea that safety concerns with Smart Dolls and small children will get taken seriously. -_-

Actually this is something I'm a little curious about too.

The choking hazard is one thing but I'm pretty sure doll faceup supplies are hardcore toxic if they get in your mouth. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. Don't children's toys usually have safe paint or no paint at all?

7 minutes ago, sunlightandtea said:

Actually this is something I'm a little curious about too.

The choking hazard is one thing but I'm pretty sure doll faceup supplies are hardcore toxic if they get in your mouth. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. Don't children's toys usually have safe paint or no paint at all?

Yes. This is why (in the US at least to my knowledge, I'm unsure about how this is handled elsewhere), the toys are tested in a lab setting. Any factory manufacturing the product also needs to be approved by the CPSIA.

I'm still bothered by the dissonance between touting Smart Dolls as for children, often very young children, while still releasing clothing called a "Boob Tube". Just call it what it is, a tube top!

Using kids/babies in marketing is always cringy, and in my opinion, off-putting/disturbing.
And SmartDolls are a luxury item!

A baby won't tell a smartdoll from a barbie....
But a 10 year old can, so it'd make a lot more sense to have kept cortex around - and marketed that towards parents! Or overall... I just felt that cortex never received any proper marketing, so *surprised Pikachu face* "it flopped..?"
Cortex makes a perfect gateway doll for the younger ones. Both in price and in material.

37 minutes ago, Yumeiro said:

Using kids/babies in marketing is always cringy, and in my opinion, off-putting/disturbing.
And SmartDolls are a luxury item!

A baby won't tell a smartdoll from a barbie....
But a 10 year old can, so it'd make a lot more sense to have kept cortex around - and marketed that towards parents! Or overall... I just felt that cortex never received any proper marketing, so *surprised Pikachu face* "it flopped..?"
Cortex makes a perfect gateway doll for the younger ones. Both in price and in material.

Agree with this completely, along with @RainbowNanaki's comment about boob tube vs. tube top. And also the humungous extra torsos you can get. That surely isn't meant to be marketed towards kids.

Was Cortext discontinued or something?

Personally (toddlers and choking hazards aside, that's a different topic from what I'm getting into), I don't think it's fair to judge the validity of something for a child by it's price. If a parent can afford to pay $500+ for a child's toy, or if the child helped save to practice/learn good saving habits, why not? It's their choice and the prices on the website are very clear and easy to understand. I certainly never would have had one as a kid, but good for the ones who are able to.

These dolls are customizable and offer different skin tones and facial features, many girls and boys can relate to them. Barbie and some other brands have started branching out into more skin tones, which is great, but SmartDoll offers that customization to make her/him really feel relatable. That's pretty important for kids. And I know they only have 1 sculpt which is pretty skinny and perfect, but I don't want to get onto the topic of body image because then every company is at fault and that's a much, much larger topic/problem. For now, I'm just happy to see diversity.

(Also, yes, I'm concerned about the choking hazards of removeable hands and other parts.)

Edited November 19, 2020 by Veravey
bit about choking hazard and grammar

It's not the price tag that really bothers me. I remember my parents spent a fortune on my American Girl doll and her accessories when I was a kid, so I know some toys marketed at kids can be pretty darn pricy (I believe the doll + starter set with bed was well over $400 back then). It's the super young age group with toys that very clearly present choking hazards. 

14 minutes ago, hats said:

It's the super young age group with toys that very clearly present choking hazards.

Yeah, that's fair. I was speaking to children not toddlers.

I can't imagine it's healthy to chew on soft plastic altogether. I'm not familiar with the off-gassing and chemical compositions of vinyl, though.

3 hours ago, RainbowNanaki said:

I'm still bothered by the dissonance between touting Smart Dolls as for children, often very young children, while still releasing clothing called a "Boob Tube". Just call it what it is, a tube top!

I just want to address this because I’ve seen people from the US bring it up various times. In the UK and Australia those tops are almost always called ‘boobtubes’ and I’ve called them that my whole life since I was a kid. Clothing stores for humans also call them that. I never found it crude or inappropriate, I’ve literally never heard them be called anything anything other than ‘boobtube’ until I saw people acting like Danny invented the term. Given that he’s from the UK, I don’t think he found it weird or inappropriate for kids either (also if he invented it you can bet that he would call it a ‘Bewb Tube’...) But if his audience is 80-90-whatever% now from the US, it would be probably best to change the name.

That said there’s plenty of other things about the brand that are definitely not appropriate for children and most are related to his obsession with mammaries. Admittedly some of these were written a while back and haven’t been removed yet, but...He’s kind of in the awkward place at the moment at wanting to show his male otaku fans he’s ‘one of them’ but not wanting to be too inappropriate, and that’s the main reason he discontinued things like the whatevernumberofXsL boobs and prototypes for the silicone bust. I don’t know if he’s still making crude jokes about men looking at women’s chests first, ‘job interview pose’ or sexy schoolgirls in hentai, but maybe his increase in booger jokes is for the kids too.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Monty

I must have spent like the last two hours reading through this thread. I read the first nine pages then skipped to like the last six when I realized how long it really was. So there’s a good chunk I haven’t read yet.

I was a member of that “good” SmartDoll group on Facebook and, yeah, it was definitely not a safe-zone for anyone with personal opinions. More like, I dunno, the hive mind of the Borg? “We are SDLovers. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile...” sort of deal.

I’m pretty sure that group actually shut down a few months ago? Due to it becoming a cesspool of negativity or such... I don’t know, maybe it reopened by now but I haven’t gone looking. I prefer groups where you’re actually allowed to use your brain.

I would like to say that I’ve followed Danny Choo on Facebook and Instagram and, while I have never personally had an issue with him, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered such a passive-aggressive egomaniac in my life. He’s definitely escalated over the past couple of years, though. I brought my first SmartDoll in 2017 directly from his store. My card was declined by my bank at first (OMG! $600 TO JAPAN IS THIS YOU?!), but I managed to get it sorted and I was able to reorder. I didn’t get my order canceled a second time for credit fraud, either.

I like his dolls. I like the option parts for his dolls. I even like the clothes, but they’re so ridiculously overpriced I refuse to buy them. And some of them are ... seriously not worth the price. Over $50 for a pair of oversized bulky, ugly vinyl Barbie shoes? No, thanks, I’ll buy the gorgeous, well-made leather shoes that fit SmartDoll feet like a glove from Etsy for half the cost. 

Also, I don’t really like Choo as a person. I was having serious doubts about his mental stability BEFORE I read this thread; it has pretty much confirmed my opinions. He’s a nut slowly cracking under the pressure. And if his behavior continues, I very highly doubt he’ll keep these deals he’s been making with big-name companies like DC Comics. They once had a deal with Wendy and Richard Pini to republish their ElfQuest series, full-color with new pages added and all... They got four volumes of the original Quest released and then DC dropped them because the Pinis apparently got too big for their britches. That disappointed me, as I was collecting the volumes (I did get $200 when I resold the second one, though, so there’s that...). And, I’m sorry, but the wabi sabi bullshit has just become his excuse to explain away poor quality control. He doesn’t have the boys to man up and admit that he (or rather his team) made a booboo, he’d rather blame the customer for not looking the other way on it.

Anyway, yeah, it’s nice to see there are people who actually aren’t brainless lemmings bowing to his every whim.

13 hours ago, bbotss said:

Personally, I feel that the dolls are not being marketed towards children, but the parents of children.

Sorry for the big snip... but the same is true of any toy intended for very young children. Mostly thinking of the pics of a 2yo with a Smart Doll here. Anything for that age needs to pass a bunch of tests to prove it's safe and non toxic. By encouraging people to buy dolls for toddlers, they're open to a world of hurt. By law they have to be JFSL certified.

Or they could say "don't give this to a toddler". Seriously, it's surprising how strong they are, and handing over a toy with loose hands, feet, and eyes... one that's literally engineered to be taken apart... just it's such a bad idea. Even jigsaw puzzles for kids that age have bigger pieces!

Sorry, the rant is mostly aimed at Smart Doll for encouraging recklessness. It's less of a problem with older kids (aside from the money pressure stuff. Yeah, it's true that getting the wrong toy is like a slap in the face at that age.)

Ooohhh yeah, giving SmartDolls (or ANY BJDs) to kids! That’s just ... disaster in the making. I think any parent who would spend that much money on a doll for a child—especially a TODDLER—are missing a few screws. I understand wanting to teach their kids responsibility for taking care of belongings (unless they’re just trying to one-up other parents by purchasing ridiculously extravagant toys), but very young kids are basically built to destroy things. A SmartDoll would never stand a chance.

You would think, with how fussy DC has become with who can or can’t own one of his dolls, he’d have the sense to slap up warning labels on his products aimed at parents looking to buy dolls for their kids. Maybe a few before-and-after pics. Or maybe a customer should do it for him.

“THIS is your SmartDoll as played with by a toddler! This is SmartDoll abuse! Stop it! Or you might find them hovering over you at night with a kitchen knife.”

*images of doll with all the limbs ripped off*
*New faceup ala sharpie pens*
*teeth marks in the soft vinyl hands. A missing finger or two*
*wigs that look like something a cat hocked up*
*too-tight skinny jeans put on backwards*
*the list goes on*

Or, I dunno. Maybe just show a clip of the daycare scenes in Toy Story 3. That’d get the point across. 😂 

I dunno, though. I wonder if pics like that might be enough to drive DC completely ‘round the bend?

Edited November 20, 2020 by Stormlight

13 hours ago, Veravey said:

I don't think it's fair to judge the validity of something for a child by it's price. If a parent can afford to pay $500+ for a child's toy, or if the child helped save to practice/learn good saving habits, why not? It's their choice and the prices on the website are very clear and easy to understand. I certainly never would have had one as a kid, but good for the ones who are able to.

Agreed! (based on age though)
But "aggressively" marketing them towards kids, when they are at that price. It's less of an issue if the kids see the dolls and want one, but more so when it's shoved in their face. You can switch out dolls for brand clothes for kids, for example. More a status-symbol, than about the dolls themselves.
I feel sorry for those parents that might not be so well off...