Advices to modify a bust

Finally I got my first Smartdoll so I decided to compare her with my dds to see the poses and aesthetic diferrences by myself.

Then I found dds can't bend the back as SmD, so I wanna try modding the chest so both can move the torso almost in the same way at least.

Any experienced modder that could give some advices?? I was thinking on cutting the low part of the bust or cutting a little hole in the back of the neck.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Pit

I assume you're dealing with a DD3-based doll and not a DD-f3. I assume this because if you were handling a DD-f3 based doll, I don't think you would have posted this question.

13 hours ago, Pit said:

Any experienced modder that could give some advices??

My advice is to leave your doll alone. I would like to discourage you from performing an irreversible modification. It is my belief you will be much happier with your DD being undamaged than whatever benefits you can get from performing an irreversible modification.

12 hours ago, Pit said:

I was thinking on cutting the low part of the bust

While this would result in a slight increase in movement range, you're not going to get much out from it. In addition to the payoff being low, cutting the lower part of the DD/DDS bust requires precision with a hobby knife. If your cuts aren't precise around the curves, you'll end up cutting the vinyl in a way which applies a "cut stress". This stress will make the area of the vinyl where you applied the cut susceptible to splitting over time.

If you insist on cutting away at something, before you cut the bust, cut the torso instead. Photos I have are slightly NSFW so I'm going to hide them under a spoiler tag.

Spoiler

 

More photos and rambling here:

https://blog.doll.cafe/2018/01/frankendollfie-version-4.html

Cutting the torso like in the "hidden" photos requires less precision with the knife than cutting the bust. You could in theory cut deeper than in my photos but there's also the risk of going too far. If you go too far, there will be an ugly gap between the pieces when you make the doll's spine bend. Cutting away at the vinyl can increase the movement range but there are restrictive limits due to how much of a gap you're willing to tolerate and the movement range of the frame underneath the vinyl.

Now if you're wondering why I cut away at the torso vinyl like in the photo, a piece of the torso was already cut by the previous owner. I picked up the torso for cheap because it was considered damaged goods. I cut away at the torso some more because I was running an experiment to increase a doll body's flexibility. I wouldn't have bothered doing this if the torso wasn't already damaged by the previous owner.

There's also a significant difference between the frames of a DD3 and an SmD. The lower back of a DD3 frame has a lot of movement range. Once you get to the chest, the flexibility stops due to the design of the chest frame. The SmD frame was designed to have a more uniform movement range across the spine. In order for your DD3-based doll to have a similar amount of movement range as an SmD, you need to replace the DD3's spine with a custom spine.

Unless you're willing to make extensive modifications to both the vinyl and the frame of your DD3-based doll, I wouldn't bother. You're not going to get much of a movement range increase by just cutting the vinyl. If you're not absolutely sure what exactly it is you're doing, you'll risk damaging your doll. You'll then kick yourself for damaging your doll and spending money to buy replacement parts (if you can even find DD3 parts today).

12 hours ago, Pit said:

or cutting a little hole in the back of the neck.

No.

Do not do this.

STOP.

The odds of causing irreparable damage to the vinyl bust at the back of the neck is HIGH. Let's say you cut out a little hole like you mentioned. If that hole isn't perfectly positioned with the perfect size on the first try, you'll need to cut away some more and make a slightly bigger hole. This is when you're likely to cause damage you didn't foresee.

While increasing the movement range of a DD3-based doll to make it closer to the range of an SmD is possible, there's a bit of scary modification work necessary to get there. You need to be willing to take the risks of causing permanent damage and be prepared to spend money on buying replacement parts. You also need to be willing to accept the agony and frustration of failure when what you had in mind with your modification doesn't go as planned. If you're applying modifications to a $20 Gundam kit, making a critical mistake isn't a big deal. If you're modifying a doll body which costs several hundred dollars, you absolutely need to be sure of what you're doing.

At this point you might think I'm making a bigger deal out of this than it actually is. You might figure if you're going to ruin anything, you'll only ruin the DD's bust vinyl. That can be replaced for under 50 USD. You won't be hundreds of dollars down the hole if you only ruin the bust vinyl. However, it is my belief that's still money you don't need to risk spending.

If I utterly failed in discouraging you from performing an irreversible modification, then I have nothing more to say.

If I succeeded in convincing you modification isn't a good idea but you still want a DD with better movement range, then an eventual purchase of a DD-f3 based doll might be your best option.

8 hours ago, growcian said:

I assume you're dealing with a DD3-based doll and not a DD-f3. I assume this because if you were handling a DD-f3 based doll, I don't think you would have posted this question.

I forgot to mention this little detail Haha. I did the comparison with a Dddy F3 body. Therefore, yes, I heard It has more posability than DD3 but honestly I didn't notice It. Maybe because I'm very ridiculous handling the DD3 with all the things people say about the cracking risks.

So, about the f3, Is there a way to bend the back almost like a SmD?? Sorry if I insist but posing my girls on her belly reading a book or whatever, Is something I'd like to try with the least conflicts I can get if it's possible.

And, of course, ty for your great answer!! It's very helpful to know these detailed tips. Honeslty didn't know my question would involve so many issues for a modification 😅. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Pit

9 hours ago, Pit said:

So, about the f3, Is there a way to bend the back almost like a SmD?? Sorry if I insist but posing my girls on her belly reading a book or whatever, Is something I'd like to try with the least conflicts I can get if possible.

As of this writing, I don't have a DDdy-f3. I have a DD-f3 so I'm not sure how much of a difference there is between the two in terms of flexibility.

Here's how much I was able to "bend" a DD-f3 (with an M-bust):

Spoiler

The only modification I performed on her was with the neck piece. I sanded down the ribbed neck piece and then wrapped the peg with shrink rubber and masking tape. This modification only made the head easier to remove and reattach; it didn't provide the doll with any added flexibility.

With the f3 body pictured above, the only flexibility issue is with how much the vinyl interferes with the movement. The frame itself is quite flexible.

Now that I know you have a DDdy-f3 body, you can ignore everything I said about modifying the frame. My rambling was based on my assumption you were handling a DD3 body.

For trying to get a wider movement range, the f3 frame doesn't need to be modified at all. The only issue is with how much the vinyl skin interferes with the f3 frame's movement. With my doll above, I had to apply quite a bit of force to get her in the position you see but it can be done without breaking anything. Depending on the differences of how the vinyl is shaped between DD and DDdy, you might not be able to get the same pose with your DDdy-f3 as I did with my DD-f3. I won't be able to say one way or the other until I actually have a DDdy-f3 body.

If after all this you're still determined to hack away at the vinyl because you're insistent on having your girl sit on her belly, then start hacking away a little bit at a time instead of performing an aggressive surgery you'll likely regret.

Edited March 13, 2020 by growcian
Put potential NSFW images behind the spoiler tag.

48 minutes ago, growcian said:

Depending on the differences of how the vinyl is shaped between DD and DDdy, you might not be able to get the same pose with your DDdy-f3 as I did with my DD-f3. I won't be able to say one way or the other until I actually have a DDdy-f3 body.

As I don't have any DDdy or f3, I'm speaking only theoretically but still I'm fairly confident of the following: The limitation on movement with DDdy-f3 as compared to DD-f3 is going to be the fact the body joint is just below the bust instead of at the waist. Even if the inner tabs on the vinyl are cut off, it's going to be very similar to what you had with the internal frame replacement on DDdy vs. DD.

Volks with DDdy and Danny with Smart Doll made a tradeoff--far less natural body posing in favor of making the torso joint less noticable with bare-midriff clothing. Resin dolls are a little different, but this article from @Yenna really shows what that tradeoff entails (NSFW doll nudity):

https://dimensiondolls.com/blog/archives/3502

Mom help me! My body is dislocated!

22 hours ago, growcian said:

As of this writing, I don't have a DDdy-f3. I have a DD-f3 so I'm not sure how much of a difference there is between the two in terms of flexibility.

Here's how much I was able to "bend" a DD-f3 (with an M-bust):

  Hide contents

The only modification I performed on her was with the neck piece. I sanded down the ribbed neck piece and then wrapped the peg with shrink rubber and masking tape. This modification only made the head easier to remove and reattach; it didn't provide the doll with any added flexibility.

With the f3 body pictured above, the only flexibility issue is with how much the vinyl interferes with the movement. The frame itself is quite flexible.

Now that I know you have a DDdy-f3 body, you can ignore everything I said about modifying the frame. My rambling was based on my assumption you were handling a DD3 body.

For trying to get a wider movement range, the f3 frame doesn't need to be modified at all. The only issue is with how much the vinyl skin interferes with the f3 frame's movement. With my doll above, I had to apply quite a bit of force to get her in the position you see but it can be done without breaking anything. Depending on the differences of how the vinyl is shaped between DD and DDdy, you might not be able to get the same pose with your DDdy-f3 as I did with my DD-f3. I won't be able to say one way or the other until I actually have a DDdy-f3 body.

If after all this you're still determined to hack away at the vinyl because you're insistent on having your girl sit on her belly, then start hacking away a little bit at a time instead of performing an aggressive surgery you'll likely regret.

This was really heplful. I did some poses and experimentation between both and now I know that with some patience and "sutile force" you can achieve a very close back-bending pose like Smd's do. And well, I couldn't get the exorcist posability SmD's have in their spine since, as you said, the vinyl is the main obstacle for posing even with the awesome f3 frame (and honestly now I don't need it because i got what i was looking for anyway).

About the flexibility, I'd like to add some photos for people who have these same issues, hoping this can help them too. I used the same poses you did for accurated comparisons, and one more to see how she looks from the front. Although this beauty is wearing innerwear, it could be nsfw, so, spoiler:

Spoiler

In the first photo I couldn't bend my girl as far as yours. I guess this has to do directly with the vynil. Now in the second photo, yay; technically the same back bending.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Pit

So, instead of doing a new post about this topic, I'll share it here. 

I know bust mods are too risky for first-timers and that's the reason why I didn't do it for myself at the beggining. Also, taking into consideration the comments here, I was fine with the DDdy shapely bust. But after doing some clothing and photo test, I realized DDdy bust is too exaggerated for me. I was uncomfortable.

So, I took the risk and bought a DD shapely L-bust for the modification. Sure, it's not so big as the DDdy, but it's not small either, I know that. But I think, If someone were to ask me which is the max bust size I would use, definitely it would be this one. It has the right size to preserve an accurate balance in the DDdy curves.

The modification was waaaaay better than I expected and I'm more than satisfied with the results. 

And not just me:

 

Now that I have Ari's permission. Here is the result:

 

I used an exacto knife trying to preserve the same curvy lines the original shapely L bust had. i started cutting thin lines until it fit in the lower torso. It took me like 1 - 2 hours, trembling hands and tired eyes but it was worth the effort.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Pit