question Sunlight and yellowing

Hello everyone,

Just now when I was working, I noticed that sunlight hits my dolls every day (for about an hour or so) since I've got them on my desk.

I don't really have anywhere else to keep them, so I was wondering just how worried I should be about sunlight from outside hitting them every day.

Nobody's replied and I'm guessing it's because (1) we don't really know, and (2) it's probably bad, but since we don't really know we can't say how bad.

UV light is the primary reason why plastics destabilize. Plastics are ridiculously durable (yay microplastics) unless there's UV light involved. And the thing with UV is even a little bit of UV is harmful. How harmful? How much is too much? Well, you can make some determination of these things if you have enough information about the plastic, such as how much stabilizer was added to it. We don't have that information though.

More than zero direct sunlight exposure is harmful. That much I'm sure of ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ 

Someone tested a UV light used to sterilize scientific tools on a resin for a few hours and saw significant yellowing. 
 

When I saw the photo my first thought was “this is really bad,” but as @foo pointed out I don’t know for sure what the answer is. I guess my gut says find a different way to arrange the room, or move the dolls elsewhere to be safe. 

Thank you both for taking the time to reply.

I hadn't really given the sun much thought, but I kinda noticed that they do get hit by the sun during the winter period if it's not cloudy outside.
I'll have to think about how to re-arrange them, as space is a real issue in my room, and other rooms are off limits since I don't live alone.
 

 

The second one looks like a resin BJD, please get her out of the sun ASAP!

I'm originally from the BJD side of doll collecting and yes, UV light does yellow resin quite a lot. The red pigments are the first to go, which can result in pink skin dolls becoming more lemony and tan skin ones looking faded/even looking kinda greenish. Of course yellowing/mellowing happens over time as well just from the resin being exposed to air, but sunlight can speed it up quite a lot. I've seen countless dolls that have been unevenly yellowed/faded because they've been clothed and in direct sunlight for too long at meet-ups or at home. I've even purposely yellowed a resin part on my windowsill for a few days to match the rest of the doll as well.

No idea about vinyl yellowing though but I'd also recommend finding another place for your vinyl girls.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Collie

Thank you for your reply.

I've since moved my resin doll away to a spot where I don't get a lot (if any) sun out of precaution.
I still haven't decided where to put my dolls, but better safe than sorry, I suppose.

I'm wondering if there's a place to get some UV-proof cabinets or something similar, as I understand it's mostly UV light that deteriorates the dolls, yes?

5 hours ago, Collie said:

The second one looks like a resin BJD, please get her out of the sun ASAP!

I failed to notice that.

Some resin collectors keep their dolls boxed up when they aren’t being played with specifically to keep away from any light. I’ve even read about resin collectors getting museum quality fluorescent light bulbs that don’t emit UV light for their doll rooms.  

I'm not personally willing to go through such lengths to keep my dolls out of the light, though. I like looking at them, after all. 😄

But I can see why people would resort to putting their dolls away, given that this is pretty much the only way to keep them out of any harmful light.

 

14 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

I’ve even read about resin collectors getting museum quality fluorescent light bulbs that don’t emit UV light for their doll rooms.  

Wouldn't that be solved by installing LED bulbs/spots? I'm not sure but I thought LEDs don't emit UV light either.

Edited December 23, 2021 by ChrisFhey
Missed a quote

5 minutes ago, ChrisFhey said:

Wouldn't that be solved by installing LED bulbs/spots? I'm not sure but I thought LEDs don't emit UV light either.

I think LED light can come in a variety of wavelengths.

4 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

I think LED light can come in a variety of wavelengths.

Might be, yes. I'm by no means an expert after all.
I suppose the safest route would be to get the proper (and probably very expensive) lamps. :3

Could this possibly work?: 

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/home-window-solutions-us/solutions/uv-protection/

I didn't look too deep into it, though. So, I'm wondering if it's a "Peel-n-Stick" type, or could be taped up for a "temporary" fix? 

Yeah, I think it comes down to too many factors to really be sure how much sun is too much. My dolls get daily sun, been happening for years. I see no yellowing on my DD parts. But some of my dolls are hybrid with Obitsu and it's the Obitsu parts that have yellowed over 4 years on my oldest doll. But I'm sure there's other factors. I lived somewhere that was very dry year round with mostly mild temperatures, for example. I also decided that I like looking at my dolls and there wasn't much I did about it except keeping my curtains closed when I wasn't in the room. Aside from keeping them boxed up.

4 hours ago, battrastard said:

Could this possibly work?: 

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/home-window-solutions-us/solutions/uv-protection/

I didn't look too deep into it, though. So, I'm wondering if it's a "Peel-n-Stick" type, or could be taped up for a "temporary" fix? 

That looks pretty interesting actually. I'm gonna have to look into this more. Thanks!

3 hours ago, Noxxbunny said:

Yeah, I think it comes down to too many factors to really be sure how much sun is too much. My dolls get daily sun, been happening for years. I see no yellowing on my DD parts. But some of my dolls are hybrid with Obitsu and it's the Obitsu parts that have yellowed over 4 years on my oldest doll. But I'm sure there's other factors. I lived somewhere that was very dry year round with mostly mild temperatures, for example. I also decided that I like looking at my dolls and there wasn't much I did about it except keeping my curtains closed when I wasn't in the room. Aside from keeping them boxed up.

Yeah, I like keeping my dolls somewhere I can actually see them, and not in a box. Can't really put them in a dark room, which would probably be ideal, but hey.

Thankfully it's not a huge issue where I live, as I only really get sun that shines inside enough to be bothersome during winter months when the sun is low. And on top of that, we don't get a lot of sun during winter to begin with. But yeah, I'll try and take some precautions at least. I'm not gonna hide my dolls, but I'll see if I can move them somewhere that gets little to no sun, or if I could try that 3M thing that Battrastard linked.

13 hours ago, ChrisFhey said:

or if I could try that 3M thing that Battrastard linked

It's a shame they don't have a transmission curve for their window film. Because standard window glass by itself is fairly capable at blocking any UV below 300nm. The only UV that somewhat gets through is the (lower energy) band in the 400-300nm range. And we don't really know which wavelengths cause yellowing (these can be different for vinyl and resin as well).

At least for your vinyls, I'd say they are in no acute danger. Vinyl is definitely more resistant to UV than resin and if you're dealing with winter sun through a window that's definitely a fair bit of UV already filtered out.

2 hours ago, Tierparkzone said:

At least for your vinyls, I'd say they are in no acute danger. Vinyl is definitely more resistant to UV than resin and if you're dealing with winter sun through a window that's definitely a fair bit of UV already filtered out.

Thank you for the insights. I have to say that I have absolutely no knowledge of UV, although I did find that dual pane windows apparently block some harmful UV rays which is good news.

I'll still at least see if I can move my dolls to a safe location just to be sure, and I'll see where I go from there.

It's really hard to say the exact effect of UV on the dolls since it definitely depends on how much UV in the light and the quality of doll material. However, I would try to at least put the blinds down during the time that sunlight is directly hitting the doll, if possible.

On 12/23/2021 at 7:19 PM, ChrisFhey said:

Wouldn't that be solved by installing LED bulbs/spots? I'm not sure but I thought LEDs don't emit UV light either.

That isn’t true anymore. With the development of LED lights the variation in lights grows too. LEDLights designed for growing plants contains more often UV producing light. How harmful it is? Really don’t know. 
Most LED lights for in house use are between 2500 and 3500 degree Kelvin without UV. There are lights that produce more than 3500 degree Kelvin but I really can’t say how harmful they are. The do get a lot warmer so using them up close for a long time wouldn’t be recommended.

(there is a warning ⚠️ symbol with the text ‘UV radiation’ on the light itself)
I have these UV type of LED lights in my fishtank. They produce 9000 degree Kelvin. These LED lights are producing an absurd amount of heat. I really don’t want those to shine some light on my girls. 
 

On 1/16/2022 at 11:08 PM, Rajke said:

there is a warning ⚠️ symbol with the text ‘UV radiation’ on the light itself

Im working on getting a shelf for my dolls and found peel-and-stick LED strips to go under each shelf. Would any LED product declare if it produces UV or not?

4 hours ago, Veravey said:

Im working on getting a shelf for my dolls and found peel-and-stick LED strips to go under each shelf. Would any LED product declare if it produces UV or not?

Really hard to tell.
If a LED product emits UV light it must be on the LED product itself or on the package or usermanual. If every manufacturer does that I can’t tell. 
When buying a LED light strip I advice to check the amount of Kelvin it produces. My advice is to avoid LED lights that produces more than 3500 Kelvin (3500 is in my opinion still too high but sadly can not give prove of that). 3500 and higher are made for other goals than for display uses. 
LED light for display have a coating over them to prevent UV radiation. 

There is one thing I learned from growing waterplants under LED lights. Plants won’t grow if there is glass between the LED lights and the plants. According to some people I know from the aquarium hobby: Glass breaks the UV radiation. For that certain reason some people who needs the cover plate (some aquarium animals requires that) uses acrylic or double/triple the amount of LED lights when using a glass cover plate.

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Rajke

1 hour ago, Rajke said:

My advice is to avoid LED lights that produces more than 3500 Kelvin (3500 is in my opinion still too high but sadly can not give prove of that).

Ok perfect, this product is listed as 2500K. So that should be safe enough?

35 minutes ago, Veravey said:

Ok perfect, this product is listed as 2500K. So that should be safe enough?

2500K is normal for display LED’s. If they are coated or some layer covering it, that’s even better. 
I don’t think there are any safer options. 

 

3500K is bright orange.  It looks like the old incandescent bulbs which is why people like them.

Around 5000K-6000K is daylight, and is what you're accustomed to seeing as "white" light.  That will make the colours look more realistic.

 

 

 

Bumping this up to ask whether anyone has noticed fading over time (either from sunlight or age) on tan or specialty color DDs, like Dream Choice or Icon models?

I don't keep any of my dolls in places where they could get sun exposure, but it would be nice if it was possible with the vinyl ones.

Edited June 15, 2022 by lmnprty

I've had Towa for ~18 months now and she looks exactly the same colour as new arrival Uzuki. They're both regular flesh coloured.

I've never had Towa in direct sunlight, but she's been outdoors a couple of times.

My girls stand in the dimly lit hallway during the day. I'm kind of mindful of this issue because I'm also an avid Lego collector and that reacts horribly to sunlight, especially white and grey bricks. It is kind of reversible (using hydrogen peroxide) but I don't know if doll yellowing could be similarly reversed.

Uh, don't quote me on this but LEDs emit negligible UV. Also my white Lego that was just displayed in an internal bathroom didn't yellow. Don't put vinyl dolls in the bathroom though!

I don't think the Dream Choice tans and Icons are old enough yet to know for sure if we'll see any color change in them. Personally I've only ever really noticed the hard vinyl parts on my older Obitsu bodies yellowing, but that was not until after about maybe 8-10 years or so I think. It happened whether they were in the light or always inside in clothing, but only on the hard vinyl limbs, not on the soft vinyl torsos. There is a slight color difference between my older NS DD heads and newer bodies, but not by much and there's been some speculation that there was a slight change in the color formula at some point anyway. I haven't noticed any major color change in any of my darker skinned DDs or Smart Dolls, but my oldest one is only about 3 years old or so. I'm sure some people have older darker skinned dolls than me, maybe up to about 5 years old? Most of my dolls live in my living room, where they're not in direct sunlight but there is a big picture window that lets in lots of indirect light.