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Galvatim

@growcian yeah, my TE-01 included 2 heads.  The other head looks almost exactly like the one I have on MP-44.  I'm pretty sure I have a third run TE-01.  I don't quite see what all the fuss is about.  Maybe if I bought TE-01 before getting MP-44, I'd be more impressed.  MS-01 and MP-44 are both far more dynamic, with a greater range of articulation.  In terms of gimmicks and accessories, TE-01 has the Matrix, laser ax and gun, which lights up, in addition to the extra head.  I guess you could count the screwdriver and extra screws, but those really don't add anything.  Oh, and a hitch piece to use the MP-10 trailer.  There's a hefty amount of diecast.  

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growcian
19 minutes ago, Galvatim said:

@growcian yeah, my TE-01 included 2 heads.  The other head looks almost exactly like the one I have on MP-44.  I'm pretty sure I have a third run TE-01.

Thanks. I pondered buying a TE-01 myself but I really don't like the ver.1 head. I couldn't get a guarantee of whether making a purchase now would result in me receiving a third run.

19 minutes ago, Galvatim said:

I don't quite see what all the fuss is about.

I think it's safe to say I'm not alone in disliking the ver.1 head so that's why there's a big fuss about it.

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growcian

I have another Atari 2600 Combat cart in my collection I forgot to include into the picture above. 😅

Having said that, I am guaranteed to add another potato chip to my collection. 😅x 2

War for Cybertron: Earthrise was announced.

@onion29@

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/official-images-transformers-war-for-cybertron-earthrise-reveals-nycc2019-nycc/44033/

I placed pre-orders for Combat Potato and Backstabber. I'll probably end up ordering Cliffjumper, Wheeljack, and Hoist as well. Not wild about Grapple or Ironworks.

I'm also looking forward to how the plastic model version of Devastator will turn out.

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/new-images-of-flame-toys-devastator/44022/

For how big and intricate I expect this kit to be, I'm thinking the $80 price tag may be a hard sell. I'll try to remain cautiously optimistic with this one.

If I were to combine the cost of all the upcoming TF toys I want, the total amount will still be less than my 2B pre-order. :lol:

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Gabriel

Of the Earthrise figures, I ordered Optimus, Wheeljack and Starscream last night.

Optimus because... meh, why not.  Wheeljack because the only version I currently have is the Combiner Wars version.  And Starscream because of F-15 mode.

I should probably wait until Thundercracker or Skywarp, but since Hasbro derped the faces of the trijet versions up, I imagine they'll do the same with the F-15 versions.  If not, then I guess it will be the only time I've ever acquired all three original seekers.  F-15 for the win.

 

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baldylox

Ok, this is probably a really stupid question but it's been bugging me for a while so I'm gonna ask.

 

What is the deal with all these non Hasbro figures?  Does Hasbro not care that 3rd party companies are making toys of their characters?  Is this the norm now?  Wouldn't these normally be called bootlegs or knockoffs?

 

I'm just really confused by them because I know so little of the hobby.  I only had Transformers as a kid and not an adult collector.  I'm not trying to push buttons here or anything, I just genuinely have no clue what these oddly named toys are and why there are so many of them.  

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

Billy


I gave up counting the girls I own, they keep multiplying and won't stop.

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finnleo

@baldy

Even Hasbro themselves are just a distributor for toys made by Takara-Tomy, however they hold the trademarks for Transformers and all logo's associated with it, to distribute these toys, and what not popular culture that resulted from selling said toys.

There are third party stuff like action toys and A3 that seem to check out... its not like licensing isn't a thing.

But apparently its not like Harmony Golds grip on Macross stuff that if it even looks like it you cant sell it stateside even if it were produced by the actual japanese companies.

 

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growcian
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, baldylox said:

Ok, this is probably a really stupid question but it's been bugging me for a while so I'm gonna ask.

What is the deal with all these non Hasbro figures?  Does Hasbro not care that 3rd party companies are making toys of their characters?  Is this the norm now?  Wouldn't these normally be called bootlegs or knockoffs?

Explaining overly complicated and convoluted licensing topics is my forte! :lol:

I'm going to separate various entities into different categories. They are Licensed Third Party (L3P), Unlicensed Third Party (U3P), and 4th Party (4P). Hardcore TF fans at other message boards might have some disagreements with what I call certain entities but since they're not here, *I* get to define the terminology.

@onion9@

L3P: These are companies like Kotobukiya, Flame Toys, Kaiyodo, Toys Alliance, etc., who signed a contract with Takara Tomy / Hasbro (TTH). These companies are allowed to manufacture products based on the Transformers property and pay royalties to TTH. When L3P companies manufacture their products, they are allowed to use the Transformers name and logos. The one absolute rule L3P companies must always follow is, toys they manufacture of Transformers characters must not transform.

U3P: These companies manufacture toys which look like TF characters but they lack the use of the TF name and logos. The characters will have different names and back stories even though they look like existing TTH TF characters. The toys themselves will lack Autobot and Decepticon insignias. You will not see the insignias on the box art either. The molds of the toys were developed by the U3P companies. By not using the TF name, not using the actual names of characters, not using the logos, by developing its own molds for the toys, and being based mostly in China, U3P companies avoid getting TTH's attention. While the toys from these companies look like TF characters, they offer different features from what TTH officially support so the toys do not directly compete with TTH's toy lineups. (This will be significant later.) While TTF could potentially take action against U3P companies, for the most part, doing so isn't worthwhile to TTF for any number of reasons.

4P: These companies range from completely unethical to slightly less unethical. These companies take existing TTH toys, disassemble them, and then make molds from the disassembled parts to recast them. These are the knock offs (KOs). The completely unethical ones then duplicate the TTH packaging and try to pass them off as the genuine products. Trademarks and copyrights are freely violated by this group. Slightly less unethical ones will recast the toys, add new features lacking in the original toys, create different sizes (oversized/undersized KOs) using recasting techniques via 3D printing software, and use original packaging to let the buyer know it's an obvious KO while avoiding the use of trademark infringing logos. The quality of 4P toys range from very good to utter garbage. 4P companies often change the company name, go under and then come back with a different name, or disappear completely. Being a 4P company is a very volatile existence due to being in a somewhat unethical business in the first place. 4P companies have been around in the 80s when TFs first hit the scene and existed even long before that. TTH has been battling 4P companies for multiple decades behind the scenes and that's not about to change.

Now for the "This will be significant later" part. TTH generally leaves U3P companies alone. However, when an U3P company attempts to release a product which directly competes with a TTH product, TTH lays the smackdown. (How this is done is an entirely different subject.)

Recently, an U3P company called Zeta Toys announced its version of Unicron. I'll try to keep this a short as possible because this is another long story in itself.

Haslab (a subsidiary of Hasbro) announced its crowd funding campaign of Unicron with a deadline of 8/31 (later extended to 10/6). Literally on 8/31, Zeta Toys announced its version of Unicron called "Core Star". Videos of Core Star being transformed went up on YouTube. Between then and now, TTH cared about this infringement enough to take action against Zeta Toys and its Core Star. Everyone knows this because Zeta Toys subsequently canceled going forward with the Core Star's release. TTH did *something* behind the scenes to force Zeta Toys to stop its plans with Core Star. While you can still find photos of Core Star around the web, finding videos of it will be difficult to impossible because they've been taken down via copyright claims.

Core Star offered nearly identical features as the official Unicron while being slightly smaller and at a lower price point. With the crowd funding deadline now extended, Core Star was going to compete directly with the official Unicron release. There was no way TTH was going to ignore this.

TTH *does* care about 3P companies making products of its characters. L3P companies, no problem. With U3P companies, most are smart enough to avoid doing something stupid or confrontational so their actions are mostly ignored. Sometimes an U3P company makes a bad move like Zeta Toys did and that's when TTH will justifiably bring down the hammer.

@onion7@

Edited by growcian

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Galvatim

Third party actually started out with add-on kits and accessories for existing TTH toys.  Fansproject City Commander armor was the first, a trailer that converted to armor for the Classics Ultra Magnus toy, which was a white repaint of an Optimus Prime.  

Hasbro was quite tolerant of this, as you needed to buy an official toy to use the add-ons.  

37188281445_7de3e43c91.jpg

This is a Hasbro Nightbeat toy (With Reprolabels, another 3rd party that makes labels to replace worn out vintage ones, or cheaply and easily customize newer toys).

37458680155_f64bb503d7.jpg

I bought a 3rd party kit from Beezleboss, which added a G1 chest and a new gun.  The kit included a new head, but I opted to use an adapter from Shapeways to make Nightbeat a Headmaster, as the original toy was.  The head is another Hasbro Nightbeat toy.  It's like Hasbro knew they could sell me on these things with the help of a few 3rd parties...  

The Unicron situation is crazy.  It sounds like, even with the extension, Haslab won't hit their goal.  I'm not getting one, it's not a good time to spend $600 after buying DDS Rem, and with DDdy 2B on the way.  I didn't follow the Zeta Unicron very closely, so not much to say there.   

Is it wrong that I'm perfectly happy with my Armada Unicron (and Cybertron Primus in the same scale)?

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growcian
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Galvatim said:

Third party actually started out with add-on kits and accessories for existing TTH toys.  Fansproject City Commander armor was the first, a trailer that converted to armor for the Classics Ultra Magnus toy, which was a white repaint of an Optimus Prime.  

Hasbro was quite tolerant of this, as you needed to buy an official toy to use the add-ons. 

Failed to add this. Thanks.

Edited by growcian
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baldylox

Thank you for the explanations!  It seems things have changed since I was involved.  :)

 

I do have another question tho.  Why do some Hasbro releases not use the original names for characters?  Like Hot Rod?  I just saw a pic of Red Alert but he's called Siege now?  What's up with that?  Seems really strange.

 

 

Billy


I gave up counting the girls I own, they keep multiplying and won't stop.

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Gabriel
19 minutes ago, baldylox said:

Thank you for the explanations!  It seems things have changed since I was involved.  :)

 

I do have another question tho.  Why do some Hasbro releases not use the original names for characters?  Like Hot Rod?  I just saw a pic of Red Alert but he's called Siege now?  What's up with that?  Seems really strange.

 

Sometimes the characters get new names because of Trademark reasons.  For instance, years ago Hasbro didn't have the trademark to "Ravage."  So figures which were supposed to be Ravage were instead named "Tripedacus Agent" and "Battle Ravage."  This has occured more recently with "Shrapnel" who got renamed to "Skrapnel" because the latter could be trademarked.  My favorite guy Shockwave also suffers because of this, having alternate names of Laserwave and Shockblast depending on the era and region in which the figure was made.

As for Red Alert, he's still Red Alert.  I'm guessing you're looking at the packaging and noticing the Siege on Cybertron branding.  The Siege thing is just the name of the sub-series of toys.  Each series (grouping of toy waves) has it's own name:  Combiner Wars, Titans Return, Power of the Primes, Siege, Earthrise, etc.  You'll notice that the name of the character (Red Alert) is elsewhere on the packaging (vertically to the left of the figure).

As for Hot Rod, I'm not sure.  I'd have to see what you're referring to.

 

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Galvatim

Hasbro couldn't get a trademark for Hot Rod, and the Classics figure from 2006 was named Rodimus.  He's also gone by Rodimus Minor.  I think Hasbro is using Autobot Hot Rod as his name now.   In Japan, he goes by Hot Rodimus.   I think Hasbro mandated a name change from Hot Rod to Rodimus in the IDW comics, which lasted until the end of More Than Meets The Eye/Lost Light, the comic series starring Hot Rod, Ultra Magnus and Autobot Megatron, amongst others.

Bumblebee can never have an actual bumblebee alt mode, as Hasbro would lose the trademark.  Something about it becoming descriptive.  

I just got Siege Red Alert!  He's never had a name change, besides being just Alert in Japan.  

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Galvatim

TE-01 Shattered Glass Optimus.

48861022726_65099bf645.jpg

48861218497_a91614e6f0.jpg

48861218382_51489f8481.jpg

I like the default head on him.  I've switched my regular TE-01 over to the alternate head, which is very close to the default MP-44 head.

48861217867_e32fb521f6.jpg

With MP-44. 

48861021986_f55177f234.jpg

Shattered Glass is the Transformers knock off of Star Trek's Mirror Universe.  SG Hot Rod even has a goatee, in homage to Spock.  I actually didn't care about Shattered Glass until Studio Trigger referenced it heavily with SSSS Gridman.  

48861916801_d17b756e45.jpg

Siege Red Alert with 3rd party Nonnef weapons kit.  I didn't buy either version of Sideswipe, despite my love of all things G2, so this is my first experience with this mold.  Might need that G2 Sideswipe after all.  

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growcian

After a number of delays, Siege Omega Pizza Taco Supreme is finally here.

@onion17@

20191012_163557.jpg.5cc5c1bded66533b653bb9e601476804.jpg

20191012_163722.jpg.859a2e62ecb3081862b3db827358ae9b.jpg

20191012_163807.jpg.133a729b0190c68e06a46b94e53de4e9.jpg

He's packed in the cardboard like Gulliver.

Now a comparison with dolls! Onion! Drum roll, please!

@onion33@

20191012_170343.jpg.2805e8b6e9e0ecc074b25f32b33e629d.jpg

Left: DDdy. | Right: Obitsu 50.

While I haven't made a side by side comparison, based on what I've seen here, Omega fish oil is about as tall as MAS-01 Atari Combat potato chip cart.

Omega's arms are a bit too short and bulky to carry one of the ladies like MAS-01 Prime can. Omega can't do that, so I haven't taken photos of him trying.

Omega has what looks like a million panel lines. I'm tempted to use Gundam Markers to fill them in and make them pop out. I haven't decided whether to do that yet.

@onion35@

I never liked his alt mode since his introduction in the 80s. I don't hate it either. I'm apathetic about it. That hasn't changed.

@onion21@

I don't have much of a reason to disassemble transform him but I will if I ever feel like it.

I really like the face sculpt on this guy.

If someone on the fence concerning whether to buy this version of Omega were to ask what I think of him, it's an easy recommendation.

I'm happy I made this purchase.

@onion29@

Edited by growcian
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growcian

While the delay was longer for Omega Pizza Taco Supreme, Siege Mirage was delayed as well and added to my waiting anxiety. Mirage was supposed to be released on September 1. Finally, my pre-order arrived at a local Amazon locker. I went to go pick him up on my way home from work. Upon opening the locker...

20191017_182048.jpg.bf69ac4b3ede9a8187f463de174450a6.jpg

Hey! Where did Mirage go?!?

I hope you saw that coming. :lol:

@onion9@

On a more serious note, I have actual photos below.

20191017_185313.jpg.15ca5a15a56bd9115e6ec9300666364b.jpg

His transformation was simple enough for me to not need the manual.

20191017_190450.jpg.51a76c22cc20d848e19f4be10b17b6f0.jpg

20191017_190502_HDR.jpg.32fc244f02545445981d331b666becc4.jpg

20191017_191024.jpg.e5b05c9fb641148dcb4ca31668d1dac7.jpg

His upper body has a clean appearance. His legs are kibbles 'n bits-tastic.

20191017_191051.jpg.ce87854e317313299b91f66ab6daa19f.jpg

His elbows and knees have 90 degree bends. They're enough for him to be able to perform dynamic poses.

While I complain about the kibble, at 22 USD, Siege Mirage provides fantastic value for the money. In his robot mode, his limbs have enough movement to allow for dynamic poses. He provides play value as a racing car and his transformation is fun.

@onion20@

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