Scalpers - Japan/International vs. VolksUSA

So... I was looking at the marketplace and I see several Aokos for sale at "marketprice" ($1200+). The timing of selling these is that these people are receiving them from VolksUSA/KerbeyLane and then immediately reselling the doll for significantly more than they paid for it. I don't see anyone calling them out as scalpers.

 

But then if someone buys the doll from the Dolpa here in Japan or from an after event here in Japan or from the Japan or International lotteries, then sells the doll immediately at a higher price, they are called scalpers.

 

I don't really understand the contradicting morality of this. These two scenarios are the exact same thing to me.

 

I'm here in Japan, for example. Yesterday at the Osaka 7 After Event, I actually had the chance to buy both Lucy and Nanami due to pulling a high number. I didn't, just because of the very high amount of yen already being spent on other things (see SakuraSylph's request service). If I had bought Lucy and Nanami yesterday and sold them here on the Marketplace for more than a very small mark-up, I would've been called a scalper. Yet I don't see the 3 Aoko sellers on the marketplace today being called scalpers.

 

I'm not upset or anything, I just don't really understand why this works the way it does. Does anyone else but me see this? Am I going crazy? (Maybe I am!) Just wanted to understand what the forums things of scalper-related morality in this sense.

People on this forum are unusually polite compared to the internet at large

If you don't like someone's prices or business practices, don't buy from them. No need for a witch hunt.

As for myself, I'm more forgiving of folks who are enthusiastic DD hobbyists selling to support their hobby, and not some dispassionate profiteers who've infiltrated the community. Haven't seen them here yet, at least.

I think there are two factors:

 

(1) For the most part, everyone here seems to make a good attempt at being nice and polite to other forum members. Calling out someone as a scalper is fairly rude and runs against the "grain" of the forum.

 

(2) Personally, I try to give the sellers the benefit of the doubt. I try to function on the assumption that they really did want the doll when they purchased her several months ago, and that something changed:

+ They have a new grail doll they want money for

+ They didn't bond with the doll when she arrived / the doll didn't look as they expected

+ Their financial situation has changed

 

However, when someone purchases a doll at the Dolpa and immediately sells it, none of these factors are likely to be true. One gets the sense that that individual did not actually want the doll at the time of purchase. And maybe that's the fine, dividing line?

Going to edit my whole post and ask just part of it:

 

Is it because it's some peoples' "jobs" to scalp that makes it wrong? I really don't know

Edited March 24, 2013 by Guest

This is a fashion hobby. Tastes change and there's a new model every year/month/day/whatever. Some sell what they have to fund the next and the cycle begins anew. Just how it is.

 

Plus there's the opportunity cost of ownership. I may have liked doll X enough to spend $600, but if the market will support double that... well, all of a sudden I'm not so sure I like doll X enough to "give up" on $1200...

been in a lot of discussions when i started here. cant have that now. so i decided to ignore those aokos even though i have the cash to instantly pay for them. if they would offer them at cost then i would be over them so fast

I'd say it's easier to call someone a scalper you don't "know", like some anonymous ebay face.

People will most likely agree with you too.

 

Calling someone a scalper that is member of the forum means you are talking to someone who's more near to you, and some people might not agree with you because they are friends with that person.

You might not know him personally, but he might get up to you/send you a message and ask you why you called him a scalper. Suddenly it gets less anonymous and you have to stand up for what you said.

A lot of people don't like being confronted like this, so they keep their thoughts to themselves.

 

Being called a scalper is also a huge assumption and even if it might be true...nobody wants to be called one, especially not among a small group of people, like a forum.

I'm going to be really frank about my opinion here, I know everyone will most likely disagree because when I speak my mind people always seems to hate me for it, but I'm gonna say it anyway, because I do want to post here but I can't do so dishonestly.

 

For me personally, I consider a scalper as anyone who buys a brand new doll and then instantly flips it for a higher price. I don't care if this is in Japan right after the event, if it's on yahoo Japan, if it's on eBay, on Dollfie World or even the forums like here and DOA. If you buy a brand new doll just sell it for significantly more then what it cost you, you are a scalper regardless of who you are. If the scalper happens to be someone I know personally, it won't make me hate you, but I would consider you in a slightly light if you did something like that.

 

Scalping within the community is a trickier subject to handle in comparison to nameless overseas auction scalpers because you don't want to hurt anyone feelings or step on anyone's toes. I would never publicly call someone out as a scalper in the community, but I will think of you differently if my suspicions are high.

 

The way I differentiate scalpers within the community is as follows:

 

You can generally tell when someone really wants a doll because they will comment about it and talk about it a lot in forum threads while waiting. If they have it, they will post on twitter, tumblr, flickr and their blogs about the new doll they are awaiting and how glad they are that they won. If someone like that sells their doll, I don't mind and I don't consider it scalping because you can tell that they did really want it and you can tell when they are genuinely disappointed that the doll isn't quite the same in person (which does happen thanks to Volks crummy photos). When these people sell the dolls on, I don't consider it scalping and I do think it's only fair that they sell for whatever the market price is. I have nothing against anyone if it happens this way.

 

People who just instantly sell a brand new doll the second they get in in hand, without ever showing any previous excitement or enthusiasm about it, that makes me suspect that they may well have brought it just to sell on, because they have clearly never had any sort of attachment to the doll. These people annoy me, because they are people who pose as friendly faces in our own community, but actually they just want your money.

 

As said above, I would never openly call someone out as a scalper because this is mostly my own assumptions and it is not 100% fool proof obviously. There are more points which would be deciding factors for me, but it will take forever to list everything, so consider this a 'scalper in a nutshell' kinda deal. I would never be mean or abusive to someone, even if I did consider the a scalper, I would either remain neutral, or just avoid them.

 

 

The above statements only apply to newly released dolls because older dolls are a completely different scenario .

I will say that when I got my Volks Aoko a few months back, I was thrilled- I had actually won through Kerbey Lane through another member, but after some discussion and all, we decided that since they won Aoko through another lottery and would have to use their name on both, we wouldn't do it. My father was the one who ended up actually winning Aoko for me- and I can't tell you how happy I was or how completely sad I am she didn't work out. Perhaps I priced her high because part of me doesn't want her to sell- she's special to me for many reasons. Or, if she does sell, I have priced her at a point I feel comfortable with letting her go without regrets. If I come into the money without having to sell her, you can bet that thread will be down in an instant- I haven't even removed her from my profile or signature because I'm that unsure I want her to leave.

 

It's kind of insulting to think that someone out there is like "Oh, they bought that doll just to scalp them later". No. Not everyone does, but a lot of people want to get at least the CURRENT market value for the doll. Some people just want to get back exactly what they paid. However, everyone has bills to pay, other dolls they want, etc. etc... so I honestly see nothing wrong with someone who paid base value to ask the current market value- that goes for any doll, even ones I've bought (you think Mariko and Yuki were cheap when I got them? No one calls that scalping. Everyone calls it "market value.")

 

I think there's a lot of double-talk in this hobby shaming people who ask for market value. I find a lot of people complain about high prices then turn around and sell their own dolls for that "high price." If the DDs stayed at their current value, a lot of people wouldn't bother buying them I'm sure, but you have the comfort of knowing if your doll doesn't work out.... you can sell it and likely get more than you paid for it.

 

I don't think most people, myself included, got an Aoko with an evil mastermind plot to hike her price up and sell her. Scalpers are usually businesses that will ask for WAY more than even market value to buy the doll (have you seen the ones priced around $1800?). People wanting to sell for market value, like myself, just want to sell the doll at the price other people have been willing to pay for her in order to get a return investment. Plus, for people who were excited about her, it may be hard to sell a doll and then think to yourself later "What if I want to buy her back?" If you sold her for way less than others are, good luck on finding her again without putting out more cash. Buyers have money and they want their product cheap, and they often forget Sellers are people too.

 

I think this entire topic is rather silly and, as said before, shaming on people who decide to sell for market value prices. Plus, it's not too hard to know who and what you're talking about- those of us who have Aoko up for sale DO browse threads, or at least I do. If you don't like a price, you don't pay it. It's that simple. This topic doesn't make me feel guilty about her price in the least, but I still find it incredibly insulting.

ebay or yahoo scalpers are just doing their job - they make easy money on our hobby. I think many will ignore them and do not buy their product. because their prices do not have any logic. but if the price differs by only 10k-15k yen (100-200$) in this case, I personally can not call them scalpers.

 

As for those who sell through the forums or marketplace and those who we know in this case will not properly call them scalpers from these single cases (I hope). it's just greed, the desire to get more money to recoup their costs and get extra money for a new purchase.

 

I can not agree with those who sell new dolls at a price higher than was paid for it. you call it a market value and although you do not need this doll, or you have more than one, you want a double price for her instead put a price inclusive of all expenses. Price for Aoko at Volks USA was $743.00. but now you all want to sell her for double price. you think this is fair? I would not mind if the price would be higher by 200$ but not twice.

 

but all this talk about a higher price applies only to the new dolls. after a year or two, this price will be quite acceptable.

 

but again, do not be like scalpers and assign space prices. we have a common hobby, and very sad to see that the doll that you really like is sold at a price higher than you can afford to pay for it.

 

ps: DJStarstryker Yes, it's not nice to see, but there's nothing we can do about it.

pss: It is very difficult to speak in a foreign language, but I hope you understand what I mean.

No, it's not just greed. It's common sense. This is insulting. Why is it more acceptable to wait for a year or two to sell a doll when you need the money now or you realize immediately that the doll won't work? This doesn't make any sense to me. Would it be acceptable if I held onto Aoko for two years and then sold her at the same cost? Why?

 

People have priced her at around 120K on Y!J. People have been paying that for her. If I sold my doll and regretted it even immediately afterwards, I would have sold at a loss because I could then not afford to buy her back. Why? Because it IS her market-value. She was limited edition, you can't get her anymore, and a lot of other factors go into that. You go on Y!J or Mandarake... you won't see her for $600-$700. She is going well over 120K. You can't expect that to change just because one person sells their doll low. Honestly, if money is an issue, the DD hobby is probably not for you.

 

I think this entire discussion is really inappropriate- it's not that hard to figure out that I am a part of this "problem"- my name has not been mentioned but there's not exactly many Aokos up for sell, and I don't appreciate my motives being questioned in a public manner. If you want to know why I'm selling a doll- ASK. If you don't want to pay the price, don't and hope that someone else will come along selling her at a lower price.

...

It's kind of insulting to think that someone out there is like "Oh, they bought that doll just to scalp them later". No. Not everyone does, but a lot of people want to get at least the CURRENT market value for the doll. Some people just want to get back exactly what they paid. However, everyone has bills to pay, other dolls they want, etc. etc... so I honestly see nothing wrong with someone who paid base value to ask the current market value- that goes for any doll, even ones I've bought (you think Mariko and Yuki were cheap when I got them? No one calls that scalping. Everyone calls it "market value.")

 

I think there's a lot of double-talk in this hobby shaming people who ask for market value. I find a lot of people complain about high prices then turn around and sell their own dolls for that "high price." If the DDs stayed at their current value, a lot of people wouldn't bother buying them I'm sure, but you have the comfort of knowing if your doll doesn't work out.... you can sell it and likely get more than you paid for it.

 

I don't think most people, myself included, got an Aoko with an evil mastermind plot to hike her price up and sell her. Scalpers are usually businesses that will ask for WAY more than even market value to buy the doll (have you seen the ones priced around $1800?). People wanting to sell for market value, like myself, just want to sell the doll at the price other people have been willing to pay for her in order to get a return investment. Plus, for people who were excited about her, it may be hard to sell a doll and then think to yourself later "What if I want to buy her back?" If you sold her for way less than others are, good luck on finding her again without putting out more cash. Buyers have money and they want their product cheap, and they often forget Sellers are people too.

 

I think this entire topic is rather silly and, as said before, shaming on people who decide to sell for market value prices. Plus, it's not too hard to know who and what you're talking about- those of us who have Aoko up for sale DO browse threads, or at least I do. If you don't like a price, you don't pay it. It's that simple. This topic doesn't make me feel guilty about her price in the least, but I still find it incredibly insulting.

 

Don't mind me using some of your poinits kind sir. I too, want to have some say in my opinion.

 

Selling a doll that's below that market value is like... How I wish people would sell me petrol at a lower price too *Other than black market*.

 

"Hey it's the government who set this stupid price on petrol! Immah complain on a community forum. Talks, and nothing gets done in the end."

 

Last time maybe I do care about whatever things people call me. Now I don't care anymore. I am used to get backstabbed both OTI and IRL.

 

That being said, after I don't care, I feel much better. So good that I just remind myself, I am a Chinese. And this is pure business.

 

Business doesn't point a gun at someone's head, and force them to pay right?

 

If one sells a doll that's higher than the market price and you all have a problem with it, what about monopolies on certain items like let's say, inflation of oil? The increament of GST/Tax? Certainly there are objection, and yada yada, in the end, nothing gets done. maybe. Because some things just remains the same or even continue to increase. Like price of goods, price of oil, price of gold, and etc.

 

some times some things have to be taken into factor, like import duties, where in Malaysia for example have to pay 10% + 5% for the total amount of price including shipping. Oh. Shipping too. If there are no import duties like Brunei, then the overall market value can be lowered. However, these inflation are not controlled by us. It's controlled by other people. Those people who actually buy lots of the same model of dolls, and set a price on them on aftermarket place.

 

Aoko is a perfect example. Supply and demands, basics of economics. A huge fan base of Type-Moon and a low *Maybe* supply of Aoko. In the end we see stuffs like a person in Y!JA gets FOUR Aokos *wow, I even have plural for name now.* and kinda set a price on Y!JA. Other people in overseas saw it, and proceed to sell their Aokos at that price, be it what ever reasons it is. In the end, we get an imbalance situation. People who wants Aoko doesn't get it, yet scalpers get Aokos. On how they obtain the dolls remains questionable but this has became a fact that this is still business. People who truly wants Aoko still ends up buying at the market price anyway. Those who don't get her because of her price backed off. The complaining is there, but for a while. life moves on, and now we have Nanami and Lucy, not to mention, Asuna. People will rather be concentrating on buying future release dolls instead of complaining forever and ever just because of the price set by the demand of the mass.

 

*However if you all have notices, Aoko's price is steadily going somewhat, down but Melty's price is going up.*

 

Logically speaking, if you all want to argue about price, why not exotic cases? I had seen bizzarre case before. For example:

 

1) A sells a doll (Or can be other doll parts) way beyond market price, B bought it, and sold it at market price.

 

2) A is looking for an honest trade. For example, a doll head with certain doll's head. B trades with A, and sold A's doll head away at a true profit price.

 

Now. I won't call this person a scalper. Because, afterall it is business. Call it sly, cunning, cheating, or *insert-negative-description-here* deal, but this is business.

 

Now to be frank, if one is to complain about dealing a small business in this DD world, I would say "chill the hell out" and be awesome. Cause this is just a hobby. Not a need in our life. Why not complain about increasing your salary to your boss, or hold a protest on your government because of the increament of GST or corruption? Sounds like a better idea that's for sure.

 

They see me rolling, they hatin'. Haters gonna hate. Everyone loves money. Deal with it.

They see me rolling, they hatin'. Haters gonna hate. Everyone loves money. Deal with it.

 

That sums up my entire opinion.

Guys there's a rule about this on this forum:

 

Sales disputes.

Do not discuss sales disputes publicly. Do not comment or insult a seller's price or item value if you feel they are unfair. Sellers have every right to sell items at whatever price they wish. This includes sales conducted on this site or other sites.

 

If you wanted to talk about scalping that would have been one thing, but it's another to call out other members of the forum, which is just flame bait. It doesn't take a leap to figure out who you meant. You could have had this topic without being specific.