Can we bring back the happy anime dolls?

I do want to suggest that people keep in mind that you can't hear tone of voice in forum posts. It's ok to disagree with each other, but don't let this turn into a fight or we have to remove / edit posts. I personally hate doing that, and I'd rather we have free adult speech on the subject of dolls / doll makers.  

1 hour ago, Mega Negi said:

Danny is ethnically chinese and was born in England, so if it doesn't reflect japanese culture, then maybe there's a reason it doesn't. It may be based out of Japan and sell primarily to them, but there's no actual reason it should be restricted to japanese culture.

He did start the company around Japanese themes, but nothing says he had to keep it that way. His own tastes may have changed, or maybe it just wasn't viable when based on a theme that already has two strong competitors. I can get him moving into a market where he can carve out a niche. 
 

5 hours ago, Irulazuli said:

Volks Super Dollfies, which are consistently more semi-real than anime-style

Super-Dollfie are their own thing with their own target audience; they predate the vinyl based Dollfie Dreams too. Except for the occasional anime themed release like Lady Oscar, Belldandy, or Creamy Mami, I don't think there is a basis for comparison.  

 

On 7/8/2023 at 1:02 PM, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

 

Both of these images feel a bit fetishized to me, but as long as the intent of the top one isn't to sexualize a young child, it just feels less creepy than the bottom one. I mean the kid looks cool even if the style is maybe a bit too sexy for someone that looks that young, but when you see all those options assembled collectively in one photo, the bottom one makes me feel like those dolls have been deliberately tortured by a higher power.

That said, options in a hobby aren't bad, and it's fine if people want these elements. CJ making diverse options for people who want to express themselves with them isn't what I personally take issue with.

25 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

He did start the company around Japanese themes, but nothing says he had to keep it that way. His own tastes may have changed, or maybe it just wasn't viable when based on a theme that already has two strong competitors. I can get him moving into a market where he can carve out a niche. 

The company has completely changed direction.  It's made me regret my Smartdoll purchases, but it is what it is.  I guess it's kind of like when your favorite band switches styles, or even genres!  Some fans will love it no matter what, and new fans will join in, but other old fans will prefer the band's original sound.

I guess I can only blame myself for buying into a westerner making Japanese things.  Live and learn! 

42 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

Both of these images feel a bit fetishized to me, but as long as the intent of the top one isn't to sexualize a young child, it just feels less creepy than the bottom one. I mean the kid looks cool even if the style is maybe a bit too sexy for someone that looks that young, but when you see all those options assembled collectively in one photo, the bottom one makes me feel like those dolls have been deliberately tortured by a higher power.

If I give my two cents on those pics, I'd say that the top one has more of a "moe" thing going on, that and I don't know if the doll is even supposed to be a kid in the first place. I hear Asian women can look somewhat young to a westerner so that can be why the doll looks that way. The bottom one does not give me the vibe that they've been tortured though. Rather, it gives off a "Mad Max" sorta vibe. But yeah while I like that SmDs give you a lot of options and stuffs for customizing the dolls, I still confess I think it can be done while still doing the anime aesthetic. It doesn't really have to be one or the other. Honestly the style of doll is what I took issue with in the first place (I think I mentioned it here before but meh).

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a company ‘seeming Japanese’ or ‘not seeming Japanese’ enough. I also don’t have any issue with his inclusivity, especially if people are getting something out of that. My issue specifically with Choo/Culture Japan is that they rely on Japanese terms and concepts like ‘wabisabi’ and ‘fukinsei’ as a means of trying to show off their uniqueness (or as an excuse for poor quality control) only to completely misuse and misappropriate the meaning of those terms.
With fashion, too. As someone who really enjoys the aesthetic of ‘Mori Girl’ fashion I was kinda shocked to see the outfits he was using that name for. (it would be like calling any one piece dress ‘lolita’.) So it becomes more like ‘why do you want to cling to this ‘cool Japanese thing from cool Japan!!’ identity so badly? Smartdoll has its own established identity and audience now, so I’m not really sure why he still does it. 

On 7/8/2023 at 1:02 PM, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

At this point the whole Smart Doll project has nothing to do with Japan, and might as well be located in the UK or the United States.  The doll line up looks like something mandated by the diversity, equity and inclusion department at some monied ivy league school.  What has that to do with Japanese culture?  Nothing.  Just look at these three companies.  I could find any non-BJD collect, and tell them that these three new product images are of dolls made in Japan, but one of them is run by a westerner, and they'd have absolutely no trouble pinpointing it.  One of these things is not like the others....

I'm interested in anime, Japanese culture, kawaii culture, all of that.  Danny's focus is on western liberal notions of cultural diversity, and, for some unexplained reason, military-esque ugly clothing.  I'm not saying that his dolls shouldn't exist, or that there isn't a market for them!  They absolutely should exist, but my interest in Japan and Japanese things, and Smart Doll's current incarnation is the furthest thing from that.

 

18 hours ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

Please spare me your accusations of bigotry.  We're all consumers here, purchasing quite costly dolls.  I'm explaining why Danny's dolls do not appeal to me.  The reason Danny's lineup is so different from Volks and Dollbot is because Danny is inserting western tastes and preferences, and those are things I am not interested in.  In no way do I think my tastes or interests are "right."  They're just my tastes and interests.  I like cute Japanese things, and Danny's interests are elsewhere. 

I'm simply not Danny's target audience, and that's ok.  I'm just not interested in the western cultural diversity, or disability gear, or pimples, or overweight dolls, or amputees.  But if you love those things, that's awesome!  I'm glad that there is a company out there that is making something you're interested in.  We don't all need to be interested in purchasing the same things. 

I do apologize if my post came off as too rude, or if it sounded like I'm trying to say how others should see things.  This is just how I see it, and why Danny won't get any more of my money.  For me, if I'm looking for anime dolls, I'll stick with authentic Japanese companies.  If you have more western aesthetic preferences, or if you feel Culture Japan produces products that are just as Japanese as Volks, then by all means, buy Smartdoll.  We are all allowed to have our aesthetic preferences, and it's okay for those to be more in line with Volk's or Dollbot than Culture Japan (and vice versa). 

 

17 hours ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

The company has completely changed direction.  It's made me regret my Smartdoll purchases, but it is what it is.  I guess it's kind of like when your favorite band switches styles, or even genres!  Some fans will love it no matter what, and new fans will join in, but other old fans will prefer the band's original sound.

I guess I can only blame myself for buying into a westerner making Japanese things.  Live and learn! 

I get disagreeing and voicing opinions, but the phrasing here isn't something I expected to run into here.
I understand looking at the photos of available dolls and wondering about the motivation of the seller/company but this is definitely not how I'd phrase that concern.

Edited July 15, 2023 by BeyondTime
Guidelines.

12 hours ago, teensybits said:

get disagreeing and voicing opinions, but the phrasing here isn't something I expected to run into here.
I understand looking at the photos of available dolls and wondering about the motivation of the seller/company but this is definitely not how I'd phrase that concern.
But you do you.

Exactly what phrasing are you talking about??? They're expressing their opinions in a respectful and articulared manner,  nobody is being called names and no judgment is being passed about anybody.

Jeez!

@BeyondTime @baldylox can't anything be made to stop these abusive and targeted posts? Its been going on all day. Seems like these people can't handle disagreeing views and are lashing out at people.

42 minutes ago, teensybits said:

I get disagreeing and voicing opinions, but the phrasing here isn't something I expected to run into here.
 

Is this because I'm not personally interested in the products that CJ is producing now with the diversity, equity, and inclusion bent?  From my perspective, Culture Japan is the one that changed, not me.  I've just been interested in Japanese anime dolls the whole time, and Danny started doing something else.  Not everyone is going to be excited about that something else.   I totally support you if Smartdoll is your thing, or if you love Danny's new aesthetic choices.  If you find a doll that you love, I'll be happy for you!  Smartdoll, as it exists now, just isn't for me anymore, so when I choose a doll, it won't be from Danny.

21 minutes ago, puxlavoix said:

nobody is being called names and no judgment is being passed about anybody.

For sure!  I support anyone's interest in vinyl BJDs.  I think sometimes people might forget that we're talking about commercial products that we buy because we personally enjoy them.  Perhaps someone might misinterpret my disinterest in the myriad of Danny's new inclusion related dolls as somehow implying rejection of people who have any of those various conditions.  But I'm not discussing people here.  I'm talking about dolls and my interest in them, particularly in Japanese anime-style vinyl dolls.  That's what this forum is for.  Danny is, of course, free to take Smartdoll in a western direction.  It's his company, and he can do what he wants.  But we should all be free to decide whether or not that appeals to us as doll buyers.  It doesn't appeal to me at all.  I vastly prefer the older lineup, and I'll be choosing to buy from other Japanese companies instead.

I don't "go here" but I feel compelled to remind people that the "semi real" Smartdolls are definitely still anime style, or at the very least heavily anime inspired. 😂 They're a slightly different kind of anime style, but anime isn't a monolith and a lot of anime looks like that. idk if we're all just so accustomed to only the most stock-standard anime style or something, but I find the suggestion that these dolls aren't "sufficiently anime" to even refer to Japan... a little laughable? Like look at those eyes and tell me these dolls aren't directly inspired by anime.

I think it's ok to just say "I don't like the more realistic style". (I don't either, even the original "anime" Smartdolls aren't stylized enough for me. I prefer chibi-ish kumakos and MDDs)

Or maybe I'm being too literal and we're not talking about the actual faceup/sculpt style but rather an assertion that diversity destroys the essence of "Japaneseness"? Which, if it is the case, I think betrays a very low opinion of the Japanese people. To suggest that cultural diversity (or disability, skin conditions, melanin, etc.) is antithetical to Japan is a little silly (to put it lightly) right?

I do think Danny's exploitation of these features to be heavy handed, but that's a whole different conversation.

 

 

3 hours ago, 0bsequi0us said:

I feel compelled to remind people that the "semi real" Smartdolls are definitely still anime style, or at the very least heavily anime inspired.

To go back to what the original post was about, Happy and Semi-real can co-exist, and while semi real isnt everybody's cup of tea it has its place. No issues here.

It probably also becomes a matter of perspective of how long someone has seen this project evolve. I've been there from day 1 and some time before that and I can confirm that things have turned from a kind of "Happy" cheerfull to somewath dystopian, and even the current models that might have a cheerfull expression have some kind of story tacked on to go with it to turn that happy into something else.

3 hours ago, 0bsequi0us said:

To suggest that cultural diversity (or disability, skin conditions, melanin, etc.) is antithetical to Japan is a little silly (to put it lightly) right?

Again this becomes a matter of perspective and how long one has looked over the project.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with diversifying things -- the company does offer products others do not and that is a good thing. Although, commercializing disabilities is its own thing, but thats its own discussion alltogether.

But one cant deny that over the years the flavor of things coming out of the company has become more and more western, to the point where honestly you can start to make jabs about the accuracy of its name. Especially as Monty already mentioned something that is also a pet annoyance of mine, that the "japanese culture" side of things is more or less prominently brought up to cover up manufacturing issues.

But you only need to look at the logo of the company to see that its sort of a joke to begin with, sort of like teslas model line up (S, 3, X, Y). once I saw the d in the CJ logo, it lost all meaning to me personally. and to be clear I do have a sense of humor to a degree, but I draw the line at using certain concepts to promote your own personal brand.

Edited July 15, 2023 by finnleo

2 hours ago, 0bsequi0us said:

I don't "go here" but I feel compelled to remind people that the "semi real" Smartdolls are definitely still anime style, or at the very least heavily anime inspired. 😂 They're a slightly different kind of anime style, but anime isn't a monolith and a lot of anime looks like that.

Finally someone brings this up, I always found it amusing that DC chose to call them "semi-real" when they're still just anime style (like KOS-MOS, Kujikawa Rise, 2B, 9S and Y'shtola from Dollfie Dreams are also anime style). Having smaller size eyes and nostrils doesn't make them "not anime". 😆 I'd say "semi-real" is something like resin BJDs from Iplehouse and the newer Dollshe dolls etc. But I guess the confusion is mostly due to DC using the wrong term (yet again) about his product.

He has a habit of using fancy words that he doesn't seem to know the actual definition of (or he knows but chooses to ignore and twists it to fit his own narrative, idk), most famous of them being "wabisabi". One other example is how he used "contour bias" to defend the flatness of Smartdoll faces at one point, when the most common definition for contour bias is "people's natural tendency to prefer objects with contours (curves) over those with sharp angles or points" so... it's rather the opposite of flat. 🤷‍♀️

3 hours ago, finnleo said:

But one cant deny that over the years the flavor of things coming out of the company has become more and more western, to the point where honestly you can start to make jabs about the accuracy of its name. Especially as Monty already mentioned something that is also a pet annoyance of mine, that the "japanese culture" side of things is more or less prominently brought up to cover up manufacturing issues.

But you only need to look at the logo of the company to see that its sort of a joke to begin with, sort of like teslas model line up (S, 3, X, Y). once I saw the d in the CJ logo, it lost all meaning to me personally. and to be clear I do have a sense of humor to a degree, but I draw the line at using certain concepts to promote your own personal brand.

I think this is where the confusion comes from for me. I think all a company needs to justify having Japan in its name is for it to be based in Japan. It's my understanding that Smartdoll as a company is based in Japan and mostly staffed by Japanese people (other than Danny himself). I guess I don't see the point in quibbling over whether aesthetics or values are "Japanese enough"; I'm getting the vibe that people are expecting sort of stereotypically Japanese imagery (Kimonos, Shinto Shrine Gates, Samurai, etc.) which is just not necessary to be a "sufficiently" Japanese company.

That said, I do agree that Danny himself seems to have a warped view of Japanese culture. I want to make it clear that I'm not defending Danny- his conduct is of the reasons I have not bought a Smart Doll and never will. I think Monty made a good point about his misuse of Japanese words, and I do get the impression that he is leaning into the "Japan is just a sexy anime paradise" stereotype that many westerners have.

I really don't think his "concern" for diversity and representation is genuine either, and to me it definitely seems like exploitation/commercialization and does come off a bit ghoulish. But again, getting a general vibe that that's not the main issue being raised in the recent posts of this thread.

3 hours ago, mizya said:

Finally someone brings this up, I always found it amusing that DC chose to call them "semi-real" when they're still just anime style (like KOS-MOS, Kujikawa Rise, 2B, 9S and Y'shtola from Dollfie Dreams are also anime style). Having smaller size eyes and nostrils doesn't make them "not anime". 😆 I'd say "semi-real" is something like resin BJDs from Iplehouse and the newer Dollshe dolls etc. But I guess the confusion is mostly due to DC using the wrong term (yet again) about his product.

I understand why people usually refer to them as differentiated from the "anime" sculpts; tbh I've always just assumed it was for ease of communication. Like I think people generally understand that even the semi-real dolls are still very anime. Usually I wouldn't nitpick but the way people were talking about them in this thread kinda made it sound like the more recent dolls had no connection with Japanese culture at all, which gave me pause. 😅

22 hours ago, mizya said:

Finally someone brings this up, I always found it amusing that DC chose to call them "semi-real" when they're still just anime style (like KOS-MOS, Kujikawa Rise, 2B, 9S and Y'shtola from Dollfie Dreams are also anime style). Having smaller size eyes and nostrils doesn't make them "not anime".

I'm curious which anime incorporated that style? I do get the video game references, and agreed those are Japanese character designs even though they aren't traditional anime style per se. 

I own a number of books centered around drawing anime, and some of the semi-real elements, like eye design, are shown as examples. I just can't recall seeing any anime based on those designs. My knowledge of anime is far from exhaustive and maybe it's just because my own tastes have never led me there.

For the record, I do not draw, I actually have them for the style and posing ideas for doll photography. Some of the books are western but many are from Japan. Iirc the western ones all use the more traditional big eye designs in their reference drawings. I had to look through the Japanese ones to find an eye that matched.

Not disputing that Kos-Mos, 2B, 9S, and Y'shtola are a reflection of Japanese culture and tastes, but I honestly feel like Anna and Elsa from Frozen are more "anime style" than those characters, or CJ's semi-real lineup, in spite of their western origins. That said, the aforementioned video game characters are absolutely a product of Japan.

 

18 hours ago, 0bsequi0us said:

I think this is where the confusion comes from for me. I think all a company needs to justify having Japan in its name is for it to be based in Japan.

I think it's because "Culture Japan" was from Danny's old tourism blog, and that was focused on Japanese culture. The company web presence seems to have been rebranded as "SmartDoll", but the CJ logo is still present at the top of the page. Iirc Danny moved to Japan because anime Mecca, but I might be misremembering so take that with a grain of salt.

 

I admit I had never noticed the logo itself is a letter d. XD
There are so many things I want to say about that, but Guidelines! 

1 hour ago, 0bsequi0us said:

I think all a company needs to justify having Japan in its name is for it to be based in Japan.

Bluntly put the problem for me comes when the word Culture is added to the name. This changes the whole nature of it for me.

adding that word for me it moves the naming concept of something from just being in japan, to promoting things of japan.

and personally I dont understand how else you might understand it, but again not a native english speaker, and this is turning into a tail chasing moment, so we can just leave it here.

Edited July 15, 2023 by finnleo

8 hours ago, 0bsequi0us said:

an assertion that diversity destroys the essence of "Japaneseness"? Which, if it is the case, I think betrays a very low opinion of the Japanese people. To suggest that cultural diversity (or disability, skin conditions, melanin, etc.) is antithetical to Japan is a little silly (to put it lightly) right?

I have a great appreciation of Japanese people and Japanese culture.  That is why I spent years living and studying in Japan, becoming fluent in the language, and working in Japanese companies.  It's okay if we disagree, but please know that I have nothing but respect and appreciation for Japan.

I think I must again state that I am speaking in this thread only about dolls as commercial products, made for consumers.  The diversity focus in race and disability in Danny's doll lineup is in line with modern, liberal western trends.  Danny grew up in the west, and his primary consumer base is westerners. 

The Japanese companies, like Volks or Dollbot, as pictured above, simply do not have the DEI focus that Smartdoll has.  Volks and Dollbot are Japanese companies, run and managed by Japanese people, and, importantly, Japanese customers are their primary target audience.  And the Japanese run companies, marketing to Japanese consumers, do not make western DEI stuff the core of their catalogue and marketing focus.  I wouldn't say dolls with vitiligo, obesity, facial acne, cleft lips, amputees, dark skin, hearing aids, or any of that "destroys the essence of Japaneseness."  Rather, that the focus and interest in these things is western, and that the Japanese companies are not interested in these elements in their doll lineups.  Smartdoll is catering to western sensibilities, and Dollfie Dream is not.  This is my observation, not a judgement. 

My preference is for the Japanese aesthetics.  Which dolls are those?  The ones made by Japanese owned companies, primarily for the Japanese market.  It shouldn't be a sin to be uninterested in western style dolls marketed to westerners.  Those dolls will have their fans too, and that's great!

28 minutes ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

My preference is for the Japanese aesthetics.  Which dolls are those?  The ones made by Japanese owned companies, primarily for the Japanese market.  It shouldn't be a sin to be uninterested in western style dolls marketed to westerners.  Those dolls will have their fans too, and that's great!

See, this is what I'm not convinced about. If you say that creating diverse dolls is inherently not "Japanese aesthetics", you are saying that diversity is antithetical to Japanese aesthetics. Which is just patently false. Is it a niche Japanese aesthetic? Yes, just like it's a niche western aesthetic that people over here also bitch about ad nauseam. And I doubt it's purely about "western" influences either, since in the age of the internet artists and media are constantly borrowing from other. You just can't avoid "western influences" anymore. That cat is out of the bag.

You can just say you don't like Smartdolls' diversity and don't want to buy them without making it into a strange generalization about Japanese aesthetics as a whole. Smartdoll is a Japanese company with Japanese employees, and from my understanding the sculptors and artists are also Japanese even if Danny himself isn't. It's a Japanese company, making dolls with a very clearly Japanese aesthetic. You can say "liberal" or "modern" if "diverse" seems too loaded, but it is frankly strange to try to make this about maintaining some ideal of Japanese aesthetic purity.

I have honestly no idea if it's worth debating this guy at that point..... This thread started off with people that just didn't like the direction SmD sculpts are going, but now it's mainly people debating a guy that feels that he's going out of his way to be a racist weeb without looking like one. I'm sorry if you aren't a racist weeb dude, but you are starting to look like one when you are saying that diversity is something that appeals to westerners. Also, like 0bsequi0us said, The aesthetic is still Japanese and anime inspired. It just looks more mature and realistic from the older more moe style (it makes me think senien manga specifically, which is my main grievance with the sculpts, as Danny seems to want to market to children and I think the sculpting style is too mature looking).

I feel like the original topic is kinda moot at this point too, because...the happy anime girls ARE back. He's been bringing them back in huge waves with every other release.

It feels like the latest drought of them from SmD was less a sign of where he was taking the business and more that he wasn't lying when he said he just doesn't have the resources to maintain a huge doll catalogue. Now that Evolve's out, he's got polls for who's coming back and I've seen a few anime girls among em. Hopefully the rest will follow in time...and maybe stick around for long enough that people who don't have fiber optic internet have a chance at them. :') I hate clickwars...

And just to say my piece...anyone that decides "diversity" is a bad thing, or at the very least, against anyone's "aesthetic", is coming at this whole discussion from a place of bad faith. If there aren't any fat, or black, or disabled people like that in your idea of a certain aesthetic, it's because it's either extremely difficult for them to join in in the first place (as I'm sure my fellow fat lolita fashion fans can attest), or they're being intentionally left out, or pushed out. Anime's for everyone, Japanese aesthetics are for everyone, and if you can't or don't want to see that you should probably do some self reflection. Because to say those kinds of people don't belong or only cater to the West is just hurting everyone in those groups who reads that. And it makes you look like a jerk regardless of your intentions. Do you really wanna be like that?

40 minutes ago, RozenGermain said:

going out of his way to be a racist weeb without looking like one. I'm sorry if you aren't a racist weeb dude, but you are starting to look like one when you are saying that diversity is something that appeals to westerners.

Why these character attacks just because Danny's new direction isn't to my personal taste?  I fully support you in all of your doll choices, whatever they may be, and I only wish well on you.  Indeed, the more people that can find dolls they love, the better.  My personal taste in dolls, as represented in much of Volk' lineup as opposed to Danny's, isn't an attack on anyone.  It's just my taste in dolls.  Are we not allowed to say that the DEI stuff doesn't appeal to us personally for our doll collections?  I'm sure that I have dolls in my collection that you wouldn't have spent money on, because they wouldn't fit your taste in a dolls. 

1 hour ago, 0bsequi0us said:

See, this is what I'm not convinced about. If you say that creating diverse dolls is inherently not "Japanese aesthetics", you are saying that diversity is antithetical to Japanese aesthetics. Which is just patently false.

Aesthetics tastes not set in stone, and change over time, so I wouldn't say Danny's choices are inherently antithetical to Japanese vinyl doll aesthetics.  But I would argue that Danny's choice to frontline those features in his dolls is coming from a Western sensibility.  Indeed, I see no vinyl BJDs produced by Japanese companies, marketed primarily to the Japanese market, with anything approaching Danny's level of DEI focus.  I am ready to be corrected, but I've never seen anything remotely like the CJ image I supplied coming from a Japanese owned doll line.  And again, I'm not passing any judgement here, I'm simply observing which companies are producing what, and then making my choices of which dolls suit my own preferences.  I'm not sure why it's insensitive to say that Danny's lineup doesn't appeal to me as a buyer?  I should have as much free choice in my purchases as anyone else.

Edited July 15, 2023 by That_Dollfie_Dude
typo

57 minutes ago, Oculae said:

It feels like the latest drought of them from SmD was less a sign of where he was taking the business and more that he wasn't lying when he said he just doesn't have the resources to maintain a huge doll catalogue. Now that Evolve's out, he's got polls for who's coming back and I've seen a few anime girls among em. Hopefully the rest will follow in time...and maybe stick around for long enough that people who don't have fiber optic internet have a chance at them. :') I hate clickwars...

Huh, yeah that makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised if the dolls that were there (the more realistic looking ones) just weren't popular either, and that's why they were the ones that I always saw. I wouldn't be surprised if Danny decided to just rotate the doll lineup on a monthly basis or something just to make things more streamlined for SmDs. I do still kinda want an anime style prowess in cinnamon, her sculpt is perfect for what I wanted to do with an SmD in the first place!

Guys, everyone is allowed their own opinions and their own style of collecting dolls along with what they like and dislike.  We try to let everyone speak their minds to a degree here but some of the things said previous to my post are right on that edge of being distasteful and there will be NO MORE of it.

There are tons of ways to get your point across or express yourself without name calling, insinuation and backdoor assholery.  So everyone needs to step back, breathe and be more civil about this.  If you decide not to be then you and I will have a discussion while you're on break from here for a week.

Thank you.

 

 

Billy

On 4/26/2023 at 3:06 PM, LaRosePetite said:

Now that I am no longer a student I can get one, but they are all so depressing!!! I know inclusivity is important, but at some point something’s gotta give. Can Danny maybe include new fans who just want a pretty anime doll too? 

It kind of seems like no one addressed this.

If you just want a happy anime themed doll, Volks and Obitsu are both good options.

I'm not as familiar with Obitsu, but the Iris Collects are really nice. I'd wait until their new body is fully released though.

Volks can be more complicated due to the number of options, but you can always post in the Dollfie Dreams part of the forum and ask for details. Lots of choices to be had under their umbrella, and they like smiles.

5 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

If you just want a happy anime themed doll, Volks and Obitsu are both good options.

Maybe I can add Dollbot to this as well? Their sculpts are very happy anime/moe if that's what people are looking for. While this is the "cute anime doll" vinyl company I'm the least familiar with (I've had several obitsu 11 doll bodies and an MDD), I can say looking at the sculpts and their website (I was looking into getting one at some point) that they look very much like "moe" is the direction the company wants to go in.

18 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

I own a number of books centered around drawing anime, and some of the semi-real elements, like eye design, are shown as examples. I just can't recall seeing any anime based on those designs. My knowledge of anime is far from exhaustive and maybe it's just because my own tastes have never led me there.

For the record, I do not draw, I actually have them for the style and posing ideas for doll photography. Some of the books are western but many are from Japan. Iirc the western ones all use the more traditional big eye designs in their reference drawings. I had to look through the Japanese ones to find an eye that matched.

Not disputing that Kos-Mos, 2B, 9S, and Y'shtola are a reflection of Japanese culture and tastes, but I honestly feel like Anna and Elsa from Frozen are more "anime style" than those characters, or CJ's semi-real lineup, in spite of their western origins. That said, the aforementioned video game characters are absolutely a product of Japan.

Personally I'd replace the term "traditional anime" with "generic anime" 'cause the whole "big eyes, tiny dot for a nose and line for a mouth" look is what people think about when they don't know much about anime. And that style's been popularised by generic moe girl, idol, isekai etc anime in the early 2000's. If we talk about "traditional anime(/manga)" then I'd say it's the works of Osamu Tezuka, whose career started around the 1940's.

I guess when it comes to TV anime, it's often more simplified 'cause of budget/time restrictions. Like my favourite mangaka Yazawa Ai's style (and themes) is far from the generic moe girl anime, but the anime adaptations of her work look more simplified. From her work NANA, Paradise Kiss and Gokinjo Monogatari have been made into anime. With movies there's much more variation with styles, since obviously they don't have a tight schedule and most likely have a better budget too. There are movies like Ghost in the Shell, Tokyo Godfathers (this is a highly recommended watch btw) and Paprika that come to mind on the spot, but definitely there's more too. Studio Ghibli also has their own distinct style. From TV anime, there's shows like Mononoke and Mushishi that definitely don't look (or feel) generic. Also while KyoAni's stuff is mostly very cute, Violet Evergarden was more "mature" so to say and I guess Free! didn't look as moe as most of their stuff, but it still had the moe feel to it. And right, Attack on Titan isn't what you'd call generic either.

Newer Disney with the Frozen style has certainly borrowed the "big head and big eyes with tiny nose and mouth" propotions from anime, but I still think overall they're more western cartoon style.

In my childhood I watched a lot of cartoons not knowing they're anime, like The Wonderful Adventures of Nils, Moomins, Around the World with Willy Fog, Alfred J. Kwak, Taotao and Rainbow Brite. These mostly have non-human characters, obviously, but they don't really fit the image of what "generic anime" is. Well, the sequel to the original Moomin series (Bouken Nikki) was a lot more... chaotic. I don't really remember watching that as a child, but watching the episodes as a grown up I felt like it had a faster pacing and more of these "generic" reactions and stuff that you typically see in anime. Most of these shows are made in collaboration with other countries, though, so that definitely plays a part in them seeming "less anime" - however, they're still anime.

But yeah, point is - there's a lot of variation to anime (and manga). There could be newer stuff that I've missed and failed to mention here 'cause I stopped actively watching anime around 3~4 years ago. It seemed like 90% of the new shows were the same "moe girls being cute without much of an actual plot" (I blame K-On for popularising this trope) or isekai anime, and I'd grown very bored of those types of shows. 😅

Also, when I mentioned KOS-MOS, Kujikawa Rise, 2B, 9S and Y'shtola, I was talking about the look of the dolls made by Volks rather than the original games. Although yes, I'd consider all of those games to be within anime aesthetic. Even though some FFXIV fans try to claim the game isn't "anime"... but it is (and not just because of kemonomimi girls, but the aesthetic, story beats and everything is very much anime). 😆

Wow, you basically hit the nail on the head here. The only goof I would say is that isekai anime had it's boom in the 2010's and not the 2000's. Heck, now that I think about it, some "semi-real" BJDs (CP and Luts dolls and those influenced by them, specifically) kinda have a vintage shoujo-esque vibe to them to a degree. I still stand by the semi-real SmDs being more on the "mature" looking side of style, mainly because they have a face that I associate with senien manga/anime, but it's worth noting that yeah, the more "generic" anime style is very much one that I associate with the moe stuff. I think I even mentioned it slightly in my Dollbot post hehe! This kinda reminded me of a twitter post I once saw that illustrated "generic" art styles for anime/manga based on the trends seen in works depending on demographic, it was really interesting!