Volks Petition to do more preorders?

So - with the latest Nagoya Dolpa it got me thinking. With the majority of girls released the chances of getting your dream girl is very dismal as each dolpa goes on... mostly because of scalpers and just the increasing fandom of the hobby around the world.

 

Has anyone ever been known to successfully contact Volks Japan with out a super polite, yet inpersonal response? (In Japan or otherwise) Would it be possible to do a petition and request that they handle more preorders over having lotteries?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but theres the idea that Japanese companies can be rather set in their ways and not always up for change. So it might be a random shot in the dark to even get their attention. In this instance however, having more preorders would equal to more profit, more people having the dolls they want, lowering the price of crazy aftermarket sellers, and increasing the fanbase for the hobby. From a business stand point it makes no sense to me to limit yourself like that?

 

All the other BJD companies follow the preorder model, and maybe it is because Volks is sort of like the Prada of the doll world, they don't feel they need to.. or they like the exclusivity and the crazy high demand.

 

Maybe they financially can't do preorders on every doll due to licensing, but they still keep that info rather secret. If, for example, they only had a deal to make X amount of Idolm@ster Chihayas and *that* is why they have to do a limited run I'd be more understanding (and yeah bummed if I didn't win).

 

Possibly a futile idea, but still the thought remains that it never hurts to try. We clearly all love this hobby and want these beautiful gals made out of plastic -- and if given the chance, we'd want MORE of them directly from the company and not JoeShmoe selling his 2-3 gals for x2 the original price.

 

Ok rambling over... but what do you guys think? Worth at least trying? Don't bother? I'd think the petition would have to be in both English and Japanese obviously. I have no idea where you even do such a thing. but even for the SD crowd we could get DoA people interested it might actually get alot of signatures?

 

Now I gotta go pine over Yukiho some more... XD

Edited July 6, 2013 by Guest

I actually like it the way it is now >w< even though I haven't even got a doll yet. I think the way they have it now is nicely controlled and stable.

I actually like it the way it is now >w< even though I haven't even got a doll yet. I think the way they have it now is nicely controlled and stable.

 

so you like the chance of not getting the gal you want and then possibly having to pay a lot more for her from an aftermarket seller? If you're super lucky or have a lot of connections maybe it's not a bad system.

 

Maybe I'm just a little jaded now from talking with my resin friends who don't really have to worry about lotteries. They just get to order the one they want, then wait a few months for it to be made for them. : )

I guess I just like the randomness of it. It makes me really think about if I really do need the doll. xD One of the reasons I like it this way also is because of the way I see resin dolls go xD The way resin dolls are much more easier to obtain (non-limiteds, ect) makes it seem to me less of a collectable and just more of a doll for your own purposes I guess I like things that are rare

To me randomness would be a 1/4 chance not a 1/1,000 or 1/10,000 chance.

 

I think SakuraSylph said that lotteries are ingrained in Japanese culture. They seem to love lotteries. It almost like it is the source of the value of that item. Still I don't think it hurts to ask Volks to consider pre-orders.

 

I think they even did both lottery and preorder for Shinguji Sakura. She was at the Dolpa, she was then a lottery item, and finally they took preorders for her. I wonder if that means there are lots of her. She ended up being quite unpopular. I heard that Volks still had some for sale at retail price. I don't know if it was the lack of her "limited-ness"/ease of getting or just how she looked as a DD or both that makes her not sought after. Maybe they are worried the same thing would happen to future DDs if they allowed preorder.

 

People want things they can't have. But making all DDs something you can't have just makes angry disillusioned customers!

I think its true that its part of the Japanese culture it reminds me of Gachapons hehe

 

I think its worth a shot to petition A lot of people would be up for it

Yeah I wouldnt at all be surprised if the lottery system is just what Japanese customers prefer. There's that idea of exclusivity via a random drawing.

 

My only guess is if they did a preorder and a lottery for Sakura around the same time, people who really wanted her did the preorder, and they just got burned on the lottery side because the people who truly wanted her just went the preorder route? I mean that's how I'd want it, if I was a company.. I'd prefer to have interested customers order the girls they want up front and I make that many and sell that many.

 

Maybe there's a flaw in their current preorder system that they don't have the payment due til a few months later (isnt that how it is with the xenosaga gals?), but heck I'd be okay with paying right then to insure my gal was created for me.

 

The possible negatives of a preorder would mean that aftermarket/resell might not be as high - but really if you're buying a doll just to flip whats the point? (well obviously dire cirbleepstances like needing a car, food, house, yknow whatevs)

With the length of time it take's Volks to do pre order dolls, I would personally hate it if all dollfie dream's were pre-order only. If they could do it with a 3 month or less wait then it would be ok, but the way Volks is currently with pre orders? There's no way in hell I'd want them to fully switch to that system.

 

Not to mention that if a popular doll is released, it makes things go crazy and Volks cannot keep up with the volume of orders if everyone can order what they want. Look what happened with the Saber Pre orders, take a popular character with a versatile and universally liked face and everyone orders it, Volks cannot keep up with the demand and everything as a whole was impacted by it in a terrible way for a reeeeeeally long time Even after all the pre order Sabers were all shipped out, it took Volks a long time to get back to 'normal'. I don't want that to happen again either.

 

I think lottery is the best system overall for both Volks and the consumers at the moment. It means they can produce a set amount of dolls which they know they can keep up with, it means each and every account gets the exact same chance of winning and it does not depend solely on being in the right place at the right time with the fastest internet connection.

 

If you look at a real life lottery, the kind you enter for a cash prize, I've known people to buy up to 50 tickets when there is a big jackpot, most times, they don't even win a thing, not even the lowest prize. On the other hand, there have been people who buy one ticket on the off chance and they end up winning a substantial amount. It doesn't matter how many entries you have. If you win you win, if you don't you don't. Simple as that.

 

I look at the Volks lotteries like that, it doesn't matter how many entries you have, you will always have an extremely slim chance of winning anything. If you do win a doll great! If you don't win, you get over it and either give up on her or buy her second-hand.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Guest

With the length of time it take's Volks to do pre order dolls, I would personally hate it if all dollfie dream's were pre-order only. If they could do it with a 3 month or less wait then it would be ok, but the way Volks is currently with pre orders? There's no way in hell I'd want them to fully switch to that system.

 

Not to mention that if a popular doll is released, it makes things go crazy and Volks cannot keep up with the volume of orders if everyone can order what they want. Look what happened with the Saber Pre orders, take a popular character with a versatile and universally liked face and everyone orders it, Volks cannot keep up with the demand and everything as a whole was impacted by it in a terrible way for a reeeeeeally long time Even after all the pre order Sabers were all shipped out, it took Volks a long time to get back to 'normal'. I don't want that to happen again either.

 

I think lottery is the best system overall for both Volks and the consumers at the moment. It means they can produce a set amount of dolls which they know they can keep up with, it means each and every account gets the exact same chance of winning and it does not depend solely on being in the right place at the right time with the fastest internet connection.

 

If you look at a real life lottery, the kind you enter for a cash prize, I've known people to buy up to 50 tickets when there is a big jackpot, most times, they don't even win a thing, not even the lowest prize. On the other hand, there have been people who buy one ticket on the off chance and they end up winning a substantial amount. It doesn't matter how many entries you have. If you win you win, if you don't you don't. Simple as that.

 

I look at the Volks lotteries like that, it doesn't matter how many entries you have, you will always have an extremely slim chance of winning anything. If you do win a doll great! If you don't win, you get over it and either give up on her or buy her second-hand.

 

I've been in both positions and it's as simple as that if you ask me. Some people will say that losing is not an option, but lets face it, these are luxury items not a necessity. At the end of the day, nobody NEEDS a doll.

 

Personally due to my above feelings, I would not sign a petition for pre order dolls. I am content for the system to stay as it is.

 

Valid points

Not to mention that if a popular doll is released, it makes things go crazy and Volks cannot keep up with the volume of orders if everyone can order what they want. Look what happened with the Saber Pre orders, take a popular character with a versatile and universally liked face and everyone orders it, Volks cannot keep up with the demand and everything as a whole was impacted by it in a terrible way for a reeeeeeally long time Even after all the pre order Sabers were all shipped out, it took Volks a long time to get back to 'normal'. I don't want that to happen again either.

I agree here! I think doing preorders is feasible for other BJD companies, probably because the volume of orders is much more reasonable. In fact, I bet they do preorders because if they made a number of dolls ahead of time, the dolls might be sitting in a box at the company for who knows how long, and that's not good for business. Volks on the other hand, can sell pretty much every doll they make, no problem. So Volks makes the number of dolls that they are able to (they release new stuff periodically, they can only make a certain amount of each release), and creates a lottery system so it's not just 'first come first serve.'

 

Plus, Volks does have standard dolls that they regularly stock. The limited releases are special, and hard to get, like any limited BJD (except harder to get due to high demand).

 

Overall, it would be nice to just be able to get the doll you want, but there's probably a good (decent?) reason Volks does things the way that they do *shrug*

I agree that as of now Volks is unable to keep up with a decent pre-order production schedule. Turn around takes forever and has a negative impact on standard items and body parts.

Also I remember a lot of quality control issues on the Sabers. A lower quality doll is not worth the gamble for a higher amount of dolls overall in my opinion.

 

I am slightly worried the Kosmos/momo preorder is going to have QC issues. Especially since I participated and ordered. Waiting to see on that one. That will definitely impact whether people think its worth pre-ordering in future. However I do hope they keep the one pre-order a year thing going.

 

I like the limited rare aspect of limited doll lottery and I think the Japanese definitely do. It does make the doll more special. You entered and through staggering odds won your girl. (This is why customs have huge popularity over there, it is one doll in all the world!) I have only entered the lottery once, and I understand and feel for all those that don't win. To me the biggest problem lies with the scalpers. Volks already holds a lottery for ticket numbers at the dolls parties, so I am not sure what more they could do to curb scalping.

 

Re-releasing dolls may start to be the key, but the scalpers remain.

I was thinking that things would be easier if they do lots of re-releases. Then people who missed them the first time can get them the second time. Re-releasing disperses the illusion that the DD is that rare and needs a $1300-$1600 price tag. Then maybe even on the secondary market, the re-release is not so high priced.

 

They could put a cap on the total number of preorders they take to decrease the chance of being overextended with resources when making preordered DDs.

 

I don't consider the degree of how limited or hard to get something is as a factor that makes me want a particular DD. I like certain DDs because of their mold/look/"personality." One I always liked a lot is Aoi who was/is freely available. Similarly, I have no interest in some rare sought-after molds like Tamaki, Manaka, Fate, Nanoha, or Asuna. I don't think they aren't cute. They just aren't "my type." It would help me out a lot if from now on Volks just made a lot of those that I don't feel I make a connection with. haha

More preorders is an awful idea, look at Volks when they did the Saber ones, they were out of body parts regularly for almost a year. And re-releases is silly, nobody has any idea a re-release would sell and Volks probably runs on the fact that they themselves don't need to hang onto large amounts of stock, as sitting stock is them losing money.

 

As for the price of the secondhand market, most of the heads stabilize at around 1.5-2x their regular price, but re-releases at this point just make people feel cheated because nobody can predict re-releases from volks and so just get it from the secondhand market. We are reasonably lucky in that if you compare it to resin SDs, DDs are much cheaper. It doesn't help tons of people in this forum propagate the scalping and splitting as well.

 

In the end, I doubt volks gives a crap about what anyone outside of japan thinks after all. Its just like all these other discussions where people want volks to do . Japan's attitude and customer service to foreign countries is laughable a lot of the time as it is, getting them to do anything specific is ridiculous.

I was thinking that things would be easier if they do lots of re-releases. Then people who missed them the first time can get them the second time. Re-releasing disperses the illusion that the DD is that rare and needs a $1300-$1600 price tag. Then maybe even on the secondary market, the re-release is not so high priced.

 

They could put a cap on the total number of preorders they take to decrease the chance of being overextended with resources when making preordered DDs.

 

I don't consider the degree of how limited or hard to get something is as a factor that makes me want a particular DD. I like certain DDs because of their mold/look/"personality." One I always liked a lot is Aoi who was/is freely available. Similarly, I have no interest in some rare sought-after molds like Tamaki, Manaka, Fate, Nanoha, or Asuna. I don't think they aren't cute. They just aren't "my type." It would help me out a lot if from now on Volks just made a lot of those that I don't feel I make a connection with. haha

 

That is what I am hoping for too with re-releases, that it devalues the doll and makes it harder for scalpers to double up on the price.

Agreed for the preorders at some point they do need to cap quantity. 1 per customer is best, and a shorter pre-order window.

 

Slightly OT

I think most people go for mold/look/personality first, I just think the added factor of it being a limited model is also what makes it attractive to collectors and scalpers.

 

This is just my opinion on "popular molds" such as Yuki M., Sasara, Tamaki, etc. A lot of it is hyping by one entity or another that causes lots of folks to start bandwagoning on a particular model. Right now its Asuna, there is tons of want. Its also somewhat of an attention/status thing that "Hey I have this rare sought after model!) Next 6 months it will be a different girl and the cycle continues.

 

I am sure someone will argue this and say "I love that doll for the mold! Not cuz she's popular!" And maybe its true for a few, however paying high mark-up once for a girl you just fell in love with is one thing. Repeatedly doing it for "rare models" is just bandwagoning on the flavor of the month. But thats just my opinion on mass frenzy for a particular "rare-mold". Thats also why scalpers stay in business with fat and happy wallets.

 

I am also not very interested in those high priced "rare models". I have the belief that Volks is constantly coming out with new and great things to bother paying scalpers and high mark-up. It just takes time. (I do possess an incredible amount of patience, so that helps in waiting if the first or 23rd try was a fail )

I don't think anyone expects to change anything. This thread is more like a place to discuss our ideas/opinions about it. Volks won't change. Scalpers will always exist. People can't resist the chance to get things. There is always a customer willing to pay.

 

I agree with chibinezumi that patience really helps in these cases. I don't mind waiting 2+ years to get a DD released in the past. You never know when one will come up at a good price. It is often worth waiting.

 

I do feel bad for those who paid $750 for a Sakuya head. Maybe there will be $300 or $400 Sakuya heads available later or even full set Sakuyas at retail price up for sale by owners who had to give them up or need to buy something else. If that happens, those who drastically over paid for Sakuya will be sad. Likewise, there is much concern that Sasara might get re-released and those who bought her at insane prices like $2500-$3000 will be heartbroken. On the other hand, if a quite different Sasara were released (different faceup, different skin tone, different head mold even) the value of original Sasara would potentially remain intact like Saber versus Saber Extra.

I pretty much agree with everyone. It's sad not to get a DD you wanted, but if I really loved that girl, I'm willing to wait and see whether one comes to me later. I feel that if Volks started doing preorders only, they'd either have to cap the numbers (thus making us have click wars for them) or they'd only release like 2 or 3 girls a year. That would certainly be sad.

My impression is a large portion of Dollfie Dream owners are collectors and the easier it is to obtain something the more it looses it's collectability. One thing I really like about the hobby is that for pretty much all of the limited Dolls I can resell them should I wish at some point and get all the money (including customs and shipping) I spent back. With that in mind I can rational my purchase of these very expensive dolls as a bank/investment.

 

If Volks did do a pre-order system I think it would kill the hobby in the long run. The after market would become saturated and collapse. Also they'd release less dolls in larger quantities each year

 

I like it the way it is. Sure I might not get that doll I really want in the lottery but there's a thrill in and hunt afterwards. Occasionally Volks do the pre-order system which is really good and caters towards people that find it hard to get into the hobby. Also Volks has their non-limited standard Model range, and then blank heads to mod/paint into anything. Ultimately anybody can get into dollfie dreams as it is but there needs to be these rare collectables to keep them wanting more.

Does that mean the secondary market is what actually sells DDs? If people didn't want them as rare collectors item based on how inflated secondary market prices are, then Volks couldn't sell its own DDs at retail? No one would want boring easy to get DDs? I would say that a lottery with reasonable chances is a good scheme but not one where you really can't expect to win. I don't mind looking for a DD I lost in the lottery. It isn't fun or thrilling. It is similar to getting a parking ticket or having your car towed. It is just an additional expense. But I have friends who become so stressed about the process that it isn't fun for them. For me, I don't need a particular DD. I can live without her. But it makes me really sad to not be able to help my friends.

I would mind the limited sculpt selection a lot less if there were a DD FCS.

 

I'm jes sayin'.

More preorders would be awesome so long as they were manageable in scope, I think the Sabers really overwhelmed Volks in terms of demand as I don't remember there being as much demand for Yoko/Nia or Yuki M/Rina. I also don't remember there being as many quality control issues with the previous preorder girls but I could be wrong (I vaguely remember some issues with Yoko's wig, maybe?). I'm curious if Volks will manage to stay on schedule for Kosmos/Momo and still have reasonable quality control. I'm not saying every doll needs to be a preorder but more preorders would be nice especially when they know the property is a hot commodity.

 

I haven't entered as many recent lotteries, the last one that comes to mind was the dolpa that had Cirno, Rise and Sakuya (was that really almost a year ago?). Up until that point I had only ever lost Kud via Volks lotto, I did win Cirno with a single entry but despite entering the US, international and kerbeydoll lotto I still lost Rise. Rise had occupied the top spot on my wishlist until I saw her and Melty in person recently, Rise subsequently moved way down the list and Melty moved way up it- so maybe it was meant to be that I didn't win. I was absolutely devastated when I lost Kud, I actively avoided all news from Volks about new dolls for like nine months because I was so frustrated about her and the fact that I was so frustrated over a doll frustrated me that much more because it was just a doll. Years later, looking back I can laugh about it now especially since I have Kud but it also reminds me not to take things so seriously. Dolls are not essential items, even if I really want one and I can't have it for whatever reason I will still survive. Now when I enter a lottery and win, it's fantastic! If I don't win, the doll goes on the wishlist and can fight with the others already there over who gets priority. Patience has really paid off with some of the girls on my wishlist, the values on a lot of them have dipped as more new/popular dolls are released I was just finally able to get Fate for well... less than what I would have to pay for one of the newly released popular girls.

 

I really appreciate that Volks did release three new basic models somewhat recently, so there will always be a variety of girls available to everyone (they pop in and out of stock but are generally available). It's not perfect but I feel having more readily available DD girls is a step in the right direction.

 

A DD FCS is a nice thought BUT even the FCS for SDs is imperfect and doesn't offer every headmold; I could not for example get a Shinku head through FCS.

I'm honestly gonna say, as much as I like pre-orders, I wouldn't want them doing them more than they already do. As much as I like them guaranteeing my order, I don't think it is worth it for the risk of:

1. The risk of being overwhelmed. The Saber pre-order proves that if you have the right character(s) and/or designs that they can get hit with way more than they would expect.

2. The risk of quality going down. If they feel pressed to finish something quality could drop. I really love Volks partly because of their great quality control, but when you are trying new things and they get to be a bit too much quality is usually something that suffers.

3. The risk of delays. Now, I personally don't mind. I'm really patient when it comes to receiving my dolls, but I admit I hate listening to people complain about Volks cause they don't have their dolls. Basically, I just don't want to listen to their bull. XD I'm mean, what can I say? But in all honesty, no one likes delays either even if you are patient like me.

4. The risk of limiting other releases even more. Lets face it, when you have limited resources things get cut. Volks doesn't outsource to China, so whatever they have is what they have. You can't expect them to make MORE of other dolls when they simply can't? If you did more pre-orders then imagine how much harder it would be to win a lottery doll. If anyone thinks they are bad now, well imagine if they got worse? I could easily see extra pre-orders having this affect.

 

The only way to deflect all this is to make a pre-order cap. (I think Mitsuki mentioned this--and adding that I think they should already have this.) Unfortunately, that isn't acceptable either for quite of few folks who don't get the concept of "first come, first serve." I think it is reasonable, but I could see plenty of folks not being happy with this.

 

Other things to keep in mind are things like, Volks won't care. Petition all you want, but Volks will not give a damn.

 

As Mitsuki said, culturally lotteries are more acceptable. For the Japanese hobbyists, lotteries are better. You would be changing a bit part of Volks entire selling point. "Look at this doll, isn't she amazing? AND SHE'S LIMITED." You can't beat something that is culturally acceptable. You ain't in Japan after all.

 

Volks has been on a weird re-release high, and you know I'm happy with that alone. I don't need more pre-orders cause honestly? If I like something, I don't win, I'll pay more for it. I actually don't mind spending the extra buck if I really do like something. I'm used to paying secondhand prices, and honestly I know I will keep doing just that. I dunno, I just think it is waste of time to really try to push for something that A) Won't happen no matter how you push and B) has just too many risks.

 

 

All the other BJD companies follow the preorder model, and maybe it is because Volks is sort of like the Prada of the doll world, they don't feel they need to.. or they like the exclusivity and the crazy high demand.

 

Just a note, but Volks did establish what the "modern ABJD" is, and so yeah, they are gonna be the top-tier company. They are also not Chinese nor Korean. Their culture is different, their hobbyists are different, and the way they sell will be different. And I would like to note that the pre-order thing with BJD has only became very popular for their more limited molds in the last few years. Other then Unoa (or Azone which isn't a BJD), most companies used to just put up an LE doll with a specific number and called it a day. So, the pre-order model is only a recently established way to sell LE BJD. It isn't like that was something there from the get-go. Volks has to do the the lotteries because of their demand. In all honesty, they are removing the "first come, first serve" logic so that they can give more people an opportunity. As I said, the pre-order model is still fairly new in retrospect.

I don't think things are really going to change. It is somehow just nice to talk about cause and effect, downstream effects, alternatives, motivations, etc. It is what we do in science all the time. "The virus did this. How, why, when, where? Can we tell what it is doing? No, but here are 10 models for how it could be doing what it is doing." A lot of times, the models/hypotheses can't even be tested and cirbleepstantial evidence at best can be collected. But it is somehow fun to see what everyone thinks and to just voice our pent up thoughts since this change in how hard it is to win the lottery more than a year ago. Volks won't change but we can still talk among ourselves.

I don't think pre-ordered DDs take that long because they are pre-orders. I think it's just Volks putting off making them, while releasing new stuff in between to empty your wallet.

(sorry if someone mentioned it, kind of lazy to read all 3 pages /shot)

I think they do get overly ambitious about what they think they can accomplish.

I think they do get overly ambitious about what they think they can accomplish.

 

This.

 

To volks' credit they did allot themselves more time with the Kosmos pre-order, so hopefully things will be fine in the QC department. This is also why one pre-order a year is a more realistic number.

 

I had stated before I like the limited aspect, but I do believe Volks' needs to at least up the number of dolls for each lottery.

**These numbers are just for example and not actual statistics**

A couple years ago having say 500 dolls was fine because you only had around 1000 people trying, so there was a 50/50 shot.

As the hobby boomed the last couple years its more say 3000 to 5000 people trying to lottery. If they upped the number of dolls they would still be limited, it would just match better in having a 50/50 or even a 1 in 4 chance of getting a doll.

 

Also the collecting style of the community has changed from what I can see. As a couple other members have said, people would usually only lottery once or twice a year for girls they really wanted and would slowly create a unique personal collection of dolls.

The style of collecting now is almost everyone, wanting every doll, every single lottery. Parting, splitting, and selling dolls quite frequently for the next big thing.

 

I am not saying people should never sell their dolls, but it seems obvious that money and turning a profit seems to weigh heavy in the hobby now.

I would love to see all dolls devalued through re-release. That may very well separate true hobbyists from opportunists.