Volks Petition to do more preorders?

Great point, chibinezumi. I do think the overall culture has changed. It seems like the newest thing is most sought after and that is a moving target with each new Dolpa.

 

DDs have gotten much nicer post-Danny as well so he might have just kickstarted it. I think it would still have grown in quality and demand steadily regardless.

 

It could be that more of what Volks is releasing is just better looking and better quality. So the new things appeal to a lot more people. Then there are also more and more people so there is more competition.

 

A friend of mine once said something about how all DDs are cute but she now has an idea of which DDs she wants in her home. I think it is hard to tell from Volks' photos and seeing them in person is the major deciding factor. Then if the answer is no, that DD gets put up for sale. With more people in the hobby, you see a lot of sales.

I'm sorry I'm incapable of doing small posts! D:

 

I don't think things are really going to change. It is somehow just nice to talk about cause and effect, downstream effects, alternatives, motivations, etc. It is what we do in science all the time. "The virus did this. How, why, when, where? Can we tell what it is doing? No, but here are 10 models for how it could be doing what it is doing." A lot of times, the models/hypotheses can't even be tested and cirbleepstantial evidence at best can be collected. But it is somehow fun to see what everyone thinks and to just voice our pent up thoughts since this change in how hard it is to win the lottery more than a year ago. Volks won't change but we can still talk among ourselves.

 

I love the idea of talking about it, but I don't like wasting time in actually trying something when you know it won't do anything at all. Folks have made plenty of petitions for Volks and failed, so I was just stating I'm not a fan of bothering with something that has been proven to get no where.

 

And chibinezumi, I have to agree, it wouldn't hurt for them to up their numbers that they actually produce. I actually believe Volks has upped that number, but honestly the community is growing faster than they can most likely keep up with. You have to keep in mind there a lot of regular collectors, but also only one time entrees. Folks going after just one cause they just LOVE that character. It is something that happens when you are doing collaboration projects. So the competition is always different when you come to the collaboration projects. When you have popular series like the Shining series, or iDOLM@STER it becomes very hard to win, because you get the normal folks + a whole new crowd of people who simply want one because Sakuya is their favorite character, or something.

 

I'm only thinking that because whenever they do one of their original characters it seems like a lot more people walk away with the DD than they do when it is a collaboration.

Would like to note the other issue is that they rarely do just DD releases, they always have something from their SD line, so that means they are also busy with that line. It is a lot to manage in what I believe isn't that long of a time. Imagine having to cast each of them, paint, put together, and then package each and every doll? O.O

 

I do hope folks with KOS-MOS don't have any problems with quality. They did give themselves a really good amount of time to deal with their orders. It is a lot to manage in between regular dolpas, as I don't agree with you Shailara, as it isn't like they really give themselves much of a break anytime to really just get it done in the last minute. They have Mariko now, and then the Nagoya DP dolls (which is a huge line up including all the SD line dolls) so how would they really just delay them? I believe that they didn't quite have their time management correct for the Sabers and they also had an unexpected amount of orders. This time they most likely had a good grasp on what they would expect, and knew how to manage between those orders and their other ones.

 

Also @ Shailara

I sort of not really skimmed, so I'm no better than you. Discussions can be tiresome to read. XD I drop my opinion, disregarding if someone mentioned and then go from there if I feel like it.

Lmao! I have no life I literally just read each and every post! Very interesting to hear everyones insight especially because I haven't even started the hobby it's nice to read what the pros think c: I completely agree with chibi.

Lmao! I have no life I literally just read each and every post! Very interesting to hear everyones insight especially because I haven't even started the hobby it's nice to read what the pros think c: I completely agree with chibi.

 

Though OT, it doesn't mean you have no life, just that you have patience. You are much better than me. xD

It's hard to say how many people are actually entering into a lottery these days. Only Volks knows how many entries there are but they also have to take into account scalpers and normal fans who put in multiple entries. I actually think they do go through the entries and cut many peoples entries if all clustered together so the distribution of the dolls is pretty even across the world. That might explain some peoples poor luck?

 

If they did make a lot more to cover more entries maybe they'll over produce as many people cancel multiple entries. It's pretty difficult to project I think. They also have the limit on what they can produce within the time-frame between one event and the next. At the end of the day there should be some demand left I think to keep a healthy after market. I know some people will buy a doll and maybe never even think of selling her on and for me there are a few girls in my collection I don't think I'll ever part with, but I like having the option to sell on a girl I'm not paying as much attention to, in order to free up space and pay for another girl I really want. In order though to sell that girl and get most if not all of my money back there needs to be a healthy after market. Dollfie Dreams are collectibles and all collectibles need a healthy after market to be successful.

 

For example: I'm a huge figure collector also and when you have a lot of figures you do really need to sell on some in order to free up space and help pay for more ^^; When I first started collecting years ago it was very easy to sell on a figure and you'd get your money back. In fact in a lot of cases you would probably even make a little extra. Nowadays though there are more figure companies producing more figures than ever before and more re-releases so I find it really hard to even get close to what you originally paid and in many case I have to sell for half what I spent. I still love figures but it's getting harder to stay in the hobby if you can't recycle your collection coupled with increased costs.

 

There are other similar examples such as the comic-book industry which collapsed in the 90s due to over saturation of the market with too many limited edition foil covers etc At the time it was more of a collector market but now comics are much more mainstream now and thankfully it is doing better but there was a time when companies went under, shops closed down, and comic titles got cut left right and center.

 

The point is when the after market starts to suffer it's usually a sign that you're approaching saturation point.

 

Though OT, it doesn't mean you have no life, just that you have patience. You are much better than me. xD

 

Haha that's a good way to look at it xD which is good because when theres a doll sculpt I love... I stalk it like crazy until I have enough and there's an oportunity *w*

archeotech While I know most DD collectors have that kind of mindset (if that's the word I'm looking for) but I don't really see my dolls that way. They're not just objects to buy and sell...or well, while they are objects, I invest too much time and emotions into them to be "just" that. When I buy a doll, I buy it to keep it and selling is a very very hard decision for me ^ ^;;

Like a friend of mine put it once, it's like, selling my kids to buy other ones.

 

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that, when I buy a doll, I don't consider wether I'll be able to sell it or not afterwards and I don't think I'm the only one (I am also always expecting a bit of loss, maybe not with limiteds, but i never expect to have gain). Even if the majority of DD collectors (or BJD for that matter) suddenly come to a point where they can't recycle their dolls easily, Volks (and other companies) won't really mind, because there will always be those who have the money to buy from them and those who were patient to wait for a doll they really wanted instead of buying everything with the thought 'if it works, or I can just sell'.

 

 

I think Volks should just take it more slowly with their doll releases in general. Have a few more pre-orders, a few less Lotteries and maybe fewer dolls too (as in, new dolls, not quantity). Time problem, solved 8D *shot* Or well, that's what I wish, I know they are out there to kill some wallets >.> (mine includded)

 

EDIT: Finally read through the thread, ooo~h yea 8D

Edited July 8, 2013 by Guest

Nice points ^

I think the lottery system is fine. But one thing Volks really should change: Let every person enter the credit card number directly on the lottery entry from. Volks should then sort out the entries where name is different but card-no. is the same and directly charge every lottery winner. I know that more and more people enter with 10, 20 or even 50 tickets, just to get some dolls for selling them on the aftermarket with 50 - 100% profit!

I agree. Here in the U.S. lottery, you have to put in a credit card number to enter. The entry process is just like going through a regular ordering process.

I wish more preorders and less lotteries. Honestly I really don't like the lottery system.

For me it is not fun but only stress. I would prefer less dolls per year if they can be preorders and not lotteries.

I would like everyone who likes a doll could buy her at a correct price and not a scalper price.

I perhaps looks idealistic but I think it would be great like this and the hobby would be ever more nicer.

Just my 2 cents though, no offence to anyone ^_^

I wonder if it would take them a lot longer to deal with that though? It may be something they still don't do because of the simple amount of time it would take to match folks. I believe there is a point where a company will forget bothering with anything along the line of fairness just because in the end their overall goal of selling out will become more important, which is entirely understandable.

 

I like the idea--don't get me wrong, but I'm trying to think of it from the perspective of Volks. It is just a lot to deal with, y'know?

I wonder if it would take them a lot longer to deal with that though? It may be something they still don't do because of the simple amount of time it would take to match folks. I believe there is a point where a company will forget bothering with anything along the line of fairness just because in the end their overall goal of selling out will become more important, which is entirely understandable.

 

I like the idea--don't get me wrong, but I'm trying to think of it from the perspective of Volks. It is just a lot to deal with, y'know?

 

I agree with you completely.

I think as long as the company is making it's goal it probably won't go into such measures. While it would be great to make it a little easier for us to get the girls we want, and some people have pretty good ideas.

Perhaps the frequency of releases could go down, so that they could do a pre-order once a year, I just don't see it happening.

 

I like that they've been re-releasing girls lately. Hopefully this will bring down after market on some of them. The prices are just getting out of control.

archeotech While I know most DD collectors have that kind of mindset (if that's the word I'm looking for) but I don't really see my dolls that way. They're not just objects to buy and sell...or well, while they are objects, I invest too much time and emotions into them to be "just" that. When I buy a doll, I buy it to keep it and selling is a very very hard decision for me ^ ^;;

Like a friend of mine put it once, it's like, selling my kids to buy other ones.

 

Yep as I said, there are people are who would never sell but a large number of collectors would like to have the option. There are many different types of people in this hobby each with their own way of enjoying it. Some who will sell theirs, some who might sell someday, and some who never will sell.

 

 

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that, when I buy a doll, I don't consider wether I'll be able to sell it or not afterwards and I don't think I'm the only one (I am also always expecting a bit of loss, maybe not with limiteds, but i never expect to have gain). Even if the majority of DD collectors (or BJD for that matter) suddenly come to a point where they can't recycle their dolls easily, Volks (and other companies) won't really mind, because there will always be those who have the money to buy from them and those who were patient to wait for a doll they really wanted instead of buying everything with the thought 'if it works, or I can just sell'.

 

It's not like I think about selling on a doll when I buy her ^^; but things happen (such as loosing your job, medical bills etc) or maybe after 2 years your heart will change, or you might suddenly see the doll of your dreams go up but you wont have the money or maybe the space in your home so a tough choice will have to be made. There's tons of reasons for people to sell and being able to sell is important to a lot of people.

 

 

I think Volks should just take it more slowly with their doll releases in general. Have a few more pre-orders, a few less Lotteries and maybe fewer dolls too (as in, new dolls, not quantity). Time problem, solved 8D *shot* Or well, that's what I wish, I know they are out there to kill some wallets >.> (mine includded)D

 

I prefer more dolls in smaller quantities as it gives a higher chance of there being a doll you'd really want getting released.

I think it's a little irresponsible to be cashing out a lot of money on dolls and not keeping some aside for medical bills (especially) /etc (because, let's face it, $600-1200+++ IS a lot of money). I know stuff happens, so I always keep money aside, in case something does happen. You never know, maybe the doll won't sell because that period there's a lottery going on or people don't want the doll because they're focused on other dolls/clothes/rl stuff, you can not realistically see your dolls as "emergency money".

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't sell your dolls if you need money, I'm just saying that there's no reason for the dolls to be x2-3 the retail price. Look at the BJD hobby, I don't see it really being "saturated", although the MP is FULL of dolls that don't sell for months and months. If I need the money, I will sell my dolls, but I don't expect to sell them at retail or higher (again, except in the case of limiteds, but I still don't always expect to have gain).

So if we had more pre-orders, the only thing that would happen would be that, there would be more dolls available second-hand at retail price or lower (because I've rarely seen a DD sell for less, I think only Lucy to be honest), is all I'm trying to say here.

 

Yea but you have a lot lot fewer chances of getting it (very close to 0 sometimes?), maybe you will never even get it, so what's the point? Just seeing others posting your grail doll around and making you depressed? Except if you like the hunting, which I seriously don't, it's the most stressful thing this hobby has, second only to Limited Edition releases (pre-order perios/quanity/wtv, it's stressful cause there are too many, if you collect BJDs). Besides from what I've seen, most people want every doll that is released now or just go by the 'I will (try to) get it and see if it works'.

I think it's important to remember that everyone's range of affordability and life-style is different. I am only 18, but I'm pretty much poor with no job. However, I don't have bills to pay and I'v been saving birthday money + babysitting money. I can't wait to get my first doll, but I would still like the option of selling the doll for at least a minimum of what I paid for in case when I get the doll in person I don't really connect with her.

 

I think one of the reasons why I'm not that crazy about needing a girl instantly when I'm in love is because I actually enjoy seeing what other people do with her. The pictures people have of the doll I want sure makes me want her more, but I also just enjoy looking at photos. Maybe that's because I have yet to own my own DD, but I don't mind just looking at photos right now. Especially if that means I can save up money until the time is right and the girl is right and not just a hype.

 

I also agree that dolls shouldn't be x2-3 the original price!! But honestly I was thinking about saving $1,000+ to get a dollfie xD But now I see that If I wait, Volks will release even more beautiful girls!

 

Patience is key. ouo Sometimes you should just remember how lucky you are to have the girls you already own/ owned.

 

With my first lottery, no matter how much I want her, If I lose then I'll just save my money, If I win, then yay!

 

I'm not good at these detailed responses LOL!! I probably rambled o.e SORRY

Warning, I'm a sarcastic ass. :'D

 

The problem with the logic of "It shouldn't be this much more than the retail price!" is that it is always, and I mean always going to be there. We are unfortunately dealing with a market that isn't exactly established by us. We follow the Japanese. We look at Y!J and that's what we follow. That's where the proper secondhand prices come from, and if that's what is selling for on there, then boo hoo, I guess that's what it is selling for. Not to be mean, but it seems that a lot of folks think that pre-orders will solve ALL the price issues. It won't. I think it is actually naive to think otherwise.

 

I would like to point out that figures go through pre-orders and just how many of those end up in prices that aren't exactly close to retail? I've got a Volks Sasara Paladin ver. which was a $300 figure. (I've owned a lot of figures that go way above their retails prices) She's had TWO releases and yet her price didn't move one bit. There are numerous amounts of figures that even after their re-releases found themselves pretty much at the same price. So, pre-orders don't solve everything. In fact, to poke at GSC who I just love to do so to, they are a great example of over-saturating the market that way. (Godoka ring any bells?) The issue with pre-orders is that if you put too high of expectations on one doll you could end up with extra stock, and Volks can't have that. Ever. They do not have the space, the money, nor the time to be dealing with extra stock. It is tiresome, and bargain bins really just don't exist for Volks. The only reason I believe they have them at the Volks stores is cause people cancelled.

 

I understand the frustration of getting a LE doll, and honestly I actually like the struggle a bit, but the unfortunate truth is there are far too many factors that come into what puts up a doll's secondhand price. Character, which I think is the biggest, design, current popularity, just there are too many things. There aren't a lot of DD that get up to $2000 anymore. Almost all the ones that do are older. And the past pre-orders prove to have gone up in price. Nia and Yoko did, Rina and Yuki did, and even though the Sabers were re-releases they did. Clearly, it doesn't solve the problem. It won't. You would only find a DD at retail if it bombs and is simply unpopular.

 

I feel like "pre-order" is being too closely associated with "regular edition," and that is just silly. It has a time limit to order, and after that you can't get it again. That means you turn to, what--the secondhand market, and what happens in the secondhand market cause those are indeed LIMITED, their prices go up. So, you hit the same issue you would via lotteries. Now all you've created is a risk to their QC, and limited even more of their resources. Score.

^ True o.o

 

Hehe one of the reasons I gave to my parents for them to be okay with me buying such an expensive doll is that their price remains relatively the same and over time if taken care of could go for more especially popular sculpts.

I think it's a little irresponsible to be cashing out a lot of money on dolls and not keeping some aside for medical bills (especially) /etc (because, let's face it, $600-1200+++ IS a lot of money). I know stuff happens, so I always keep money aside, in case something does happen. You never know, maybe the doll won't sell because that period there's a lottery going on or people don't want the doll because they're focused on other dolls/clothes/rl stuff, you can not realistically see your dolls as "emergency money".

 

I totally agree it's irresponsible but it does actually happen. A lot of DD collectors are pretty irresponsible with money especially when the newest outfits are coming out or a character they love. I mean we're in a very expensive hobby which in itself is pretty irresponsible unless very wealthy. Anyway it was just an example and besides some medical expenses can go into the thousands if serious. Point is though people have lots of reasons to sell on a girl.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't sell your dolls if you need money, I'm just saying that there's no reason for the dolls to be x2-3 the retail price. Look at the BJD hobby, I don't see it really being "saturated", although the MP is FULL of dolls that don't sell for months and months. If I need the money, I will sell my dolls, but I don't expect to sell them at retail or higher (again, except in the case of limiteds, but I still don't always expect to have gain).

So if we had more pre-orders, the only thing that would happen would be that, there would be more dolls available second-hand at retail price or lower (because I've rarely seen a DD sell for less, I think only Lucy to be honest), is all I'm trying to say here.

 

Even if they don't need the money I think people have a right to sell on their collection and try get their money back. It's a shame when a doll you want goes up to a crazy price but it's a collectors market and a lot of people do enjoy it like that. Sadly if you didn't win at lottery you just have to accept it and try get one of the next releases. Personally I set a cap on what I'll spend on getting a doll but I've managed to be quite lucky. There may be some noble souls who'll sell their super rare Rozen Maiden Shinku or original Saber at original price but most will go with the market value. As stated above me the older dolls tend to be more limited as they came out when the fan base was smaller so their release was smaller. The white album girls go for a lot now but they were pre-orders too.

Gunter Even if pre-ordered dolls go for more than retail afterwards, everyone who was in the hobby at the time had the ability to get it at retail, if they wanted to, though. Which means there may be more dolls around than the set amount Volks sets for their lotteries so more dolls around second hand.

 

I do understand that nothing is going to change because 'I' want it to and that they're japanese and all that. I'm not saying anything WILL change, I just wish it would. I've considered giving up on DDs because of the way Volks handles all this (mainly because I wasn't able to get Melty really, which was a huge disappointment) and I know I'm not the only one who finds this just really stressful...

 

archeotech I do not mind people wanting to get back what they spent and it's their right to sell their dolls at whatever price they want really. I just don't ever think of it or even consider NOT buying a doll because I won't be able to sell it back at the same or higher price and I don't think that if someday, Volks (or maybe some other company?) has more pre-orders and less lotteries, it will change much for the hobby, apart from the dolls being more easily available.

I do understand why people wouldn't sell at retail and would go with market's price. What if you regret selling, maybe you want an other doll that is as high, etc.

Shailara, it was mostly the comment that they'd be "retail value" that got me going. I just couldn't wrap my head around even WISHING that because there is a point where I have to question how far a wish will go before it sounds, well, downright stupid. (I'm sorry for being blunt, but no way to put it nicely.)

 

I understand wanting the change, and I'm not trying to shut down wishful thinking, merely making points as to why those things can't happen. I'm a dream killer. Leave it at that. :D

 

I think one of the big points is how you feel about the lottery system, and what sort of affect is has on you. Some folks are like you and have the issue where it becomes an unhealthy experience. Or some are like me.

 

To be a bit personal, I have seriously struggled with staying in this hobby (I've sold so many dolls...), and even buying a doll secondhand can take a lot of my motivation to convince myself to do. The lottery system allows me a way to sort of use the competitive edge as a motivator. It adds a thrill to going after a doll, which unfortunately I don't generally feel anything from simply buying one. Currently, I don't get any of those fuzzy feelings about a single doll like I used to. I just need something healthy to focus on. At least Volks has given me a way to put a sort of special feeling into them if I win. So, yeah, I would hate pre-orders. It'd most likely fully end the BJD and DD hobby for me. >:

Imo, Volks is a single company with a mass load of demand and personally, I like the lottery. I haven't entered but it makes me think more about my purchases.

 

No one likes second hand pricing, especially what some people charge for stained and damaged dolls, but if one comes to understand that this is pretty much like stamp collecting, (if you could dress up your stamps and take pretty pictures of them lmao) where stamps only come from one place and when they run out you'd have to buy one second hand.

 

Not everyone enjoys hunting, but if it's really unhealthily stressful perhaps it is time to reconsider a hobby rather than trying to petition to make a company change its business model to make it less stressful.

 

About all the resins on the DoA marketplace going for less than retail and rarely more? Think about that as stamp collecting with multiple sources for said stamps. The dolls are worth less (not worthless) because every doll is not in demand and every collector on that board has different tastes. Try to sell Sasara there for more than $700 (barring anyone that actually knows who she is and what she's worth sees her lmao) and see how fast she goes. Someone hardcore into Iplehouse dolls may not readily purchase a Soom, Bambricony, BBB/RS or even a Volks. So the mold has to be like-able and the price has to work for someone to consider buying the doll. It works that way with any company's doll on the second hand vs the other dolls. Especially with everything one has to consider when buying a doll that's from a different company than what you already own. (Will the clothes/wigs/eyes that I already own fit this doll or will I have to buy new stuff?)

 

Its a bit different with DDs, as there's technically one source and many maaaany collectors. Limiteds in the DD side of the hobby are not just how VS makes money like they are with Soom, they're in demand and if they really wanted to they could just say "Ok, we're not doing lottery anymore. Just show up at the store and buy one" and still sell dolls. Other companies can't do that.

 

More dolls on the market would be kinda cool, I guess, but it takes away from the limited hunt which I do enjoy. Also, it would more than likely cause another issue like when I first started with DDs. The Saber Fiasco was still in full effect. It took me almost a year to finally get a doll. Bodies were out of stock and the second they became in stock it was a madhouse to get them, the second hand price of a regular DDII body was just stupid lol. I almost quit because I was wicked frustrated that I couldn't even get my first DD.

 

So, for more pre-orders, I would have to say no thanks. Lottery's fine. A few come out, I'll enter if I really want one, but other than that I'm okay with second hand. If I want one bad enough I'll pay up to my personal limit for one. If she's beyond that she's a pipedream that I might want to make a reality one day if I'm lucky. *cough* Sasara*cough*

Aye for Don't bother, Let Volks do their job, that's why its a lottery. If you didn't get it. better luck next time, they could make a beep ton of money but that's how they want to make the lotteries as per exclusive limited quantity..

Yes, Mitsuki remembered correctly... Japan does lotteries for basically everything where there is a limited quantity of goods to distribute. It is well entrenched in the culture here, so having learned all about it from Volks, I was well prepared to jump right in and start getting concert tickets for instance.

 

A petition away from this lottery system wouldn't make any sense to the Japanese, so while a wishful idea, yeah, it wouldn't be worth the time.

 

Also, basically all the lotteries here are done without payment information. The most popular way to pay for a lottery win is to print out a receipt, take it to your corner convenience store, and pay cash after they scan it. One couldn't require payment info in advance in that sort of scenario. VolksUSA taking credit cards is unique to the North American market.

 

Every time there's a VS/VIP member survey I tell Volks they should make an FCS for Dollfie Dream. So, they certainly know that at least someone out there wants that, if not a lot of someones. No telling whether they'll ever act on that knowledge at this point. To the person who wondered, at one point last year it was possible to get Shinku's head through SD FCS as the available heads rotate all around. Couldn't get the outfit of course, but could get the head painted up just like her. I imagine a DD FCS would work similarly, where every model would be available at some point or another, just not all of them all of the time.

 

I've certainly also noticed our hobby trending towards "dollfie of the week" just like a magical girl show. All the interest that one doll generates evaporates as soon as the next issue of Volks News comes out and the new shiny is revealed. It's kinda weird to watch.

All the interest that one doll generates evaporates as soon as the next issue of Volks News comes out and the new shiny is revealed. It's kinda weird to watch.

 

Eh, that's not terribly different from the gadget market (e.g. smartphones, tablets) or photography market. You'd think the old models suddenly stop working the way some participants talk. Yay consumer culture.