The Facebook debacle & other issues

Taking on the other topic... if Valiant is that important, why did Courage (basically the same but in tea) get discontinued?

(Also if someone really didn't want the birthmark they could just get a faceup artist to wipe the face and restore it. nbd. I dunno why anyone would bug Danny about it, especially when he's been pretty clear on that doll keeping her birthmark and the reasons why. But maybe people out there really are that... (got a migraine and can't think of the word. Lazy? Ignorant of doll customisations? Oblivious? Or just new and hopeful of a variation? idk.))

And it looks like Journey alt in cinnamon is being discontinued soon, so if anyone here wants her... maybe I should post this on a different thread just in case!

Edited September 2, 2020 by Katsudon

7 hours ago, Katsudon said:

Also if someone really didn't want the birthmark they could just get a faceup artist to wipe the face and restore it. nbd. I dunno why anyone would bug Danny about it, especially when he's been pretty clear on that doll keeping her birthmark and the reasons why.

Even without customization (or if the customer isn't into the hobby enough to know that's an option), there are other girls available with a similar face--like starlight and melody--that they could get if the birthmark is that big of a deal breaker.

20 hours ago, Katsudon said:

Taking on the other topic... if Valiant is that important, why did Courage (basically the same but in tea) get discontinued?

(Also if someone really didn't want the birthmark they could just get a faceup artist to wipe the face and restore it. nbd. I dunno why anyone would bug Danny about it, especially when he's been pretty clear on that doll keeping her birthmark and the reasons why. But maybe people out there really are that... (got a migraine and can't think of the word. Lazy? Ignorant of doll customisations? Oblivious? Or just new and hopeful of a variation? idk.))

And it looks like Journey alt in cinnamon is being discontinued soon, so if anyone here wants her... maybe I should post this on a different thread just in case!

I feel the sad about Courage too. She was so cute. 😢

22 hours ago, Katsudon said:

Taking on the other topic... if Valiant is that important, why did Courage (basically the same but in tea) get discontinued?

Her Birthmarks weren't unique enough  for the F-5 Sculpt line 😛 Honestly all this fuss about dolls using the same sculpts treating them like completely new dolls. Then claiming that people want to remove birthmarks. It's pretty silly. They have interesting faceups, but that's what they are for the most part a faceup. I mean an iPhone6 in Blue is still the same as an iPhone in Black if it's the same amount of RAM and specs, or a special edition Console with a cool skin from a game/color. 

 

IF you're gonna pretend to be Apple at least back yourself with the same better customer service (though these days it can be questionable). 

 

I'm just trying to understand why these new faceups for the same model is being touted like a new doll. They're more or less pretty decent faceups (with some exceptions in the cocoa variety.) I just feel the walled garden approach in what is basically founded as being a customization hobby a bit ...silly?

5 hours ago, Q_T said:

I'm just trying to understand why these new faceups for the same model is being touted like a new doll. They're more or less pretty decent faceups (with some exceptions in the cocoa variety.) I just feel the walled garden approach in what is basically founded as being a customization hobby a bit ...silly?

Haha yeah, I was a bit curious and found a Justice alt prototype that just had a few dots of white paint... and the price was over 3x as much than a regular Justice.

I seriously pondered buying plain Justice and putting a few white bits of decoration on her and making it like the prototype XD and then I realised I wasn't silly rich.

(It's kinda a shame Courage isn't around. The cinnamon girls have Valiant's birthmark, the cocoa girls Liberty's vitiligo... nothing in tea though anymore )

On 9/3/2020 at 2:30 PM, Q_T said:

I'm just trying to understand why these new faceups for the same model is being touted like a new doll. 

This just seems to be a thing from this company. If I recall correctly, Serenity, Trinity, and Destiny where all technically the same sculpt but with different face-ups. (Correct me if I'm wrong, which I totally could be.)

I'm pretty sure I've seen somewhere in all of my digging that they basically only have a certain number of "slots" available for production. So using the same sculpts with different face-ups seems to maximize the amount of girls that they can sell. Like taking Monday, putting her on Cocoa skin and then naming her Tomorrow, rather than "Monday in Cocoa." 

Having come from the Resin side of the hobby, I can see the upside to this. Danny's dolls are usually in-stock, which means you order them and then he uses DHL to get them to you in two days flat, just like my Challenge that just arrive. However in the Resin side of the hobby, it can take anywhere from 3-12 months for them to even ship you the doll because they have to make it. Having more face-sculpts is great, but when you have to wait a full year to get your doll because they have to actually make it and then paint-on the face-up by hand (which sometimes doesn't even look like what you thought you paid for), it can be really frustrating and actually can lead to you buying more dolls in the meantime to try and fill the hole. Then there's also the problem if you finally getting the doll and it's taken so long that you've lost interest and pretty much immediately re-sell the poor thing. (Happens all the time in the resin community.)

So basically: Danny claiming a new face-up is a new doll is him trying to bring new characters to his audience without having to go through the huge process of trying to make a new sculpt that might look only minimally different anyway and waste one of his "slots" that he has to work with. In order to take up that different slot, we'd probably be losing another popular doll in the process. 

But there is no rhyme or reason to it.
Example: Chitose, and Chitose Classic Alternate, and Chitose Multiverse. Which is "Default" Chitose, and default with altered faceup, and new sculpt.
Then Kizuna (cinnamon), Athena (tea), and Majesty, same sculpt, same faceup - just a bit different coloring/shading.
And Resilient (cinnamon), Resilient (tea), and Resilient (cocoa) - same as above, but name remains the same.

It can be understandable for others where the faceup is different, take Prowess and Summer for example.
But to rename a doll, for small alterations to faceups, it just makes things unnecessarily confusing - especially for newbies.

27 minutes ago, Yumeiro said:

Example: Chitose, and Chitose Classic Alternate, and Chitose Multiverse. Which is "Default" Chitose, and default with altered faceup, and new sculpt.
Then Kizuna (cinnamon), Athena (tea), and Majesty, same sculpt, same faceup - just a bit different coloring/shading.
And Resilient (cinnamon), Resilient (tea), and Resilient (cocoa) - same as above, but name remains the same.

From my understanding, he stopped naming the alternate skin color dolls new names, which is why Resilient ( and others) now keep the same name even when in a different skin tone. Kizuna and the like were all named before this change so I guess they just kept them that way.(?)( their face ups are just slightly different to fit the skin tone better but other then that they're exactly the same, which personally I didn't like, but I digress (；´_ゝ`) ) The multiple Chitose's are a bit confusing, but at least they aren't sold under an entirely different name^^'. ( looking at you Freedom and Challange.) 

I dunno why, but I have a lot of trouble figuring out which ones are the same sculpt (with the exception of the obvious, like Monday). ^^; This has only been a problem with Smart Dolls, but not sure why, and I don't mean it as a dig. It might be because I've avoided milk/cinnamon dolls, 'cos I wanna stick to darker skin tones if possible...

And I only discovered Smart Doll this year, so I haven't followed the whole history. o_o; So yup, confusing for newbies.

5 hours ago, ButtonsMcGee said:

This just seems to be a thing from this company. If I recall correctly, Serenity, Trinity, and Destiny where all technically the same sculpt but with different face-ups. (Correct me if I'm wrong, which I totally could be.)

I'm pretty sure I've seen somewhere in all of my digging that they basically only have a certain number of "slots" available for production. So using the same sculpts with different face-ups seems to maximize the amount of girls that they can sell. Like taking Monday, putting her on Cocoa skin and then naming her Tomorrow, rather than "Monday in Cocoa." 

Having come from the Resin side of the hobby, I can see the upside to this. Danny's dolls are usually in-stock, which means you order them and then he uses DHL to get them to you in two days flat, just like my Challenge that just arrive. However in the Resin side of the hobby, it can take anywhere from 3-12 months for them to even ship you the doll because they have to make it.

Yes, that's because resin is cheaper upfront and resin molds eventually deteriorate so you get max 12 molds (maybe 24 ....but I believe 12 is the general number) but vinyl  has higher upfront but you don't need to worry about the molds which are metal deteriorating so much.

 

So that's why resin dolls take longer because they're being made. But even having the vinyl in stock it's with dolls with the same sculpts with different faceups, at least with resin you can just say "Give me a blank doll, I don't need the markup on makeup i don't want". Or the same with Volks, buy the parts I want and eventually build the doll I want in time. Instead people have to put up with ridiculously long disclaimers, and a lot of fat they can cut out to get a doll.

36 minutes ago, Q_T said:

Yes, that's because resin is cheaper upfront and resin molds eventually deteriorate so you get max 12 molds (maybe 24 ....but I believe 12 is the general number) but vinyl  has higher upfront but you don't need to worry about the molds which are metal deteriorating so much.

 

So that's why resin dolls take longer because they're being made. But even having the vinyl in stock it's with dolls with the same sculpts with different faceups, at least with resin you can just say "Give me a blank doll, I don't need the markup on makeup i don't want". Or the same with Volks, buy the parts I want and eventually build the doll I want in time. Instead people have to put up with ridiculously long disclaimers, and a lot of fat they can cut out to get a doll.

That is very true to an extent. 

I wasn't trying to defend anyone's actions. Just merely trying to make sense of the logic behind using the same molds with different face-ups. I'm not really in either camp when it comes to Danny's actions. (Meaning those in support or not in support of him.) I'm still relatively new to this scene and while I'm reading up to try and figure out what all has gone on in the past (and trust me that took a surprising amount of Digging and speculation), I'm mostly just trying to educate myself and stay away from being emotionally involved. 

Plot twist: It's because Danny is secretly an aspiring writer, and having more names provides him with an avenue to indulge his passion for writing ^-^

Flippancy aside, I truly believe part of the reason why he has different names even for the same doll is just so that he can provide more "lessons" for his fans. Why merely have Strength and Strength (cocoa) when you can have Strength + essay about being a business owner and Supremacy + essay about how to deal with haters? (I made up the part about Supremacy, but you get the idea.)

@Katsudon The reason for your problem with identifying sculpts is probably the same reason why you never see profile shots of Smartdolls in Danny's photos. The sculpts (excepting Moonlight) are all somewhat flat, which makes them really hard to identify. They look gorgeous from the front, but not so much in profile.

12 hours ago, ButtonsMcGee said:

Having come from the Resin side of the hobby, I can see the upside to this. Danny's dolls are usually in-stock, which means you order them and then he uses DHL to get them to you in two days flat, just like my Challenge that just arrive. However in the Resin side of the hobby, it can take anywhere from 3-12 months for them to even ship you the doll because they have to make it. Having more face-sculpts is great, but when you have to wait a full year to get your doll because they have to actually make it and then paint-on the face-up by hand (which sometimes doesn't even look like what you thought you paid for), it can be really frustrating and actually can lead to you buying more dolls in the meantime to try and fill the hole. Then there's also the problem if you finally getting the doll and it's taken so long that you've lost interest and pretty much immediately re-sell the poor thing. (Happens all the time in the resin community.)

So basically: Danny claiming a new face-up is a new doll is him trying to bring new characters to his audience without having to go through the huge process of trying to make a new sculpt that might look only minimally different anyway and waste one of his "slots" that he has to work with. In order to take up that different slot, we'd probably be losing another popular doll in the process. 

The part that doesn't make sense is why he doesn't just keep blank heads in stock, sell blank dolls, or even bodies and parts separately (like Volks! Oh. That's probably why xD). Instead there's rigorous gatekeeping for all his stuff, so I find it hard to believe he's doing all the different names for the above reasons. People are buying and immediately reselling Only the Brave dolls because they wanted a blue girl and didn't get it. (Incidentally, I heard that both lucky owners who got the blue girls also happen to own the coveted Smartdoll Plus.) It's like blindbags or kuji resales at a more expensive level, and I think no doll release in the resin community can ever hope to match that turnover rate.

Plus vinyl doesn't yellow like resin, so it is still possible to produce parts in advance, and give the customer the choice of whether a faceup is desired. This shouldn't take as long as a year, since the doll has already been produced. I would say a reasonable waiting time of a month or so, considering they don't even do faceups by hand and have paint masks for faceups.

Then again, giving customers the freedom to decide on various options for a doll they are paying for seems to be taboo in the religion of Dannyism.

On a slightly different topic, does anyone know what happened to the anime/semi-real/anything blind box that used to have discounts? Or has that been totally replaced by Only the Brave?

Edited September 11, 2020 by bbotss

You mean the Fortuitous thing? I think it's been replaced by Only The Brave. 

@Eiko82 Thanks! I forgot there was a name for it 😅

16 hours ago, Yumeiro said:

But there is no rhyme or reason to it.
Example: Chitose, and Chitose Classic Alternate, and Chitose Multiverse. Which is "Default" Chitose, and default with altered faceup, and new sculpt.
Then Kizuna (cinnamon), Athena (tea), and Majesty, same sculpt, same faceup - just a bit different coloring/shading.
And Resilient (cinnamon), Resilient (tea), and Resilient (cocoa) - same as above, but name remains the same.

https://youtu.be/DYW50F42ss8

On 9/3/2020 at 2:30 PM, Q_T said:

 

 

I'm just trying to understand why these new faceups for the same model is being touted like a new doll. They're more or less pretty decent faceups (with some exceptions in the cocoa variety.) I just feel the walled garden approach in what is basically founded as being a customization hobby a bit ...silly?

It might be different in the resin and vinyl doll genre, but it's very common for multiple characters to have the same head sculpt in pretty much every other doll genre, even higher-end dolls- I get it's different for this hobby because there's a large emphasis on customization, but there are lots of people that just want to...buy the doll because of how they look as-is or they like the character, rather than buying a doll specifically because they want the base/sculpt for customization. Some people just want a pretty doll, not a blank canvas for customization, and for that reason I actually think it's nice that Danny has so many faceup/skintone variations on the same few sculpts. 

Some people buy a doll because they enjoy that specific sculpt/skintone/faceup/wig/eye combination (and/or the character profile applied to that specific combo) and want to leave them stock, some people want to change some things but enjoy the faceup or skintone, and some people just want the blank doll to use as a base for their own work- those are all valid imo.

Personally I buy a doll based entirely on how the faceup looks, but I don't buy completely blank dolls because I have no desire to do faceups or send the doll to get one, I just want to play with wigs/eyes/clothes lol. 

I think it's weird that Danny often gives different names to skintone variants when they have the exact same faceup, but I don't think it's strange at all to use the same head sculpt for multiple characters with different faceups. There are endless ways to interpret a single sculpt ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited September 11, 2020 by Serena-Hime

7 hours ago, bbotss said:

The part that doesn't make sense is why he doesn't just keep blank heads in stock, sell blank dolls, or even bodies and parts separately (like Volks! Oh. That's probably why xD).

Actually, I think in that case it might be a price thing. Technically SmD's are cheaper than Volks dolls, so Danny might be trying to view it as a "courtesy" to give you the face-up for "no extra charge" or something like that.

Totally an assumption here, but that might be the case. lol

He might think he's doing people a favor by making the face-ups automatic. 

 

As for not keeping the blank heads in stock, isn't it true that Danny absolutely HATES when people do hybrids? It's like how he emailed me when I ordered a hand-pack for my girl that I had gotten second-hand. "Do you have a doll? These will ONLY fit Smart Dolls." He's being stupidly protective of his stuff and isn't selling blank heads because he doesn't want people sticking them on DD or MDD bodies, I'm guessing. 

 

Okay, I'm legitimately curious to see if anyone around here knows. My roommie and I have been doing some digging to try and uncover the mystery of Danny's hatred for Volks, and seem to have found something about him originally planning on doing a collaboration with Volks in 2013 to release Mirai. Obviously that never happened. Does anyone know the background to this? What happened? What was the deal breaker? What made Danny SO jaded that he just wont let it go?

15 minutes ago, ButtonsMcGee said:

Actually, I think in that case it might be a price thing. Technically SmD's are cheaper than Volks dolls, so Danny might be trying to view it as a "courtesy" to give you the face-up for "no extra charge" or something like that.

Totally an assumption here, but that might be the case. lol

Actually when comparing the prices Volks Standard Models are 46,800円 w/o consumption tax, while SmartDolls are 52,000円.
They both come with a complete face-up, wig and a pair of undies for around a 5,200円 difference. 

It's a mystery to me. O.o

12 minutes ago, ButtonsMcGee said:

As for not keeping the blank heads in stock, isn't it true that Danny absolutely HATES when people do hybrids? It's like how he emailed me when I ordered a hand-pack for my girl that I had gotten second-hand. "Do you have a doll? These will ONLY fit Smart Dolls." He's being stupidly protective of his stuff and isn't selling blank heads because he doesn't want people sticking them on DD or MDD bodies, I'm guessing. 

Okay, I'm legitimately curious to see if anyone around here knows. My roommie and I have been doing some digging to try and uncover the mystery of Danny's hatred for Volks, and seem to have found something about him originally planning on doing a collaboration with Volks in 2013 to release Mirai. Obviously that never happened. Does anyone know the background to this? What happened? What was the deal breaker? What made Danny SO jaded that he just wont let it go?

I only purchase Smart Doll products secondhand now for a multitude of reasons, and I don't truly know all the "dirt", but the changes seemed to start slowly and have rapidly gained momentum over the past year or two. Heck, my first Smart Doll purchase was some doll clothes + the moekana and moekanji cards, in what I believe was the September 2018 "time sale". I did not own a Smart Doll, and in fact intended to put the clothes on a DDS and was never contacted. Back then, I feel like the only hints at "hostility" was a mention that it was originally considered to make hybridizing easier by using the same size neck peg as another company, but the idea was scrapped for legal reasons. I do not remember the specific wording, but it was intentionally vague. If I can find the page later, I will quote + link it.

After that, the biggest blowup I was aware of at the time was the Volks mistranslation adventure, where Danny threw a hissy fit over Volks only allowing non-recast Volks-brand dolls at an event run by Volks. There were claims of elitism, as well as purposefully mistranslating the information put out by Volks to make it seem as the company thought dolls by other brands were all knockoffs. I feel like this incident was pretty well documented, if screenshots are wanted.

Since then, things just seem to get worse and worse every month. I don't know specifically what happened back in 2013, though.

43 minutes ago, ButtonsMcGee said:

Does anyone know the background to this?

Only what I have read here: He wanted Volks to make Mirai into a doll and they said no. He’s hated them ever since. 

As far as the price, on his website he used to have something written up about how he wanted to make the dolls for less, but then discovered how expensive they were to produce. 

I think his doll prices are pretty comparable to Volks, but his outfit prices are astronomical by comparison. This whole outfit from Volks cost about what a pair of shorts do from Smartdoll: https://dollfie.ec.volks.co.jp/category/D_200830_HTDK17_DRS/4518992429854.html

The workmanship is just as good, or even better, given that Volks doesn’t deliberately scuff up clothing before it’s sold.

10 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

The workmanship is just as good, or even better, given that Volks doesn’t deliberately scuff up clothing before it’s sold.

But then it wouldn't be wabi-sabi XD oh no here we go again.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Poor impulse control. Especially when snarky. Oops.

5 minutes ago, Katsudon said:

But then it wouldn't be wabi-sabi XD oh no here we go again.

🤣😂🤣

In all seriousness wabisabi works well with stuff like his post-apocalyptic outfit sets, but I would never want a wabisabi swimsuit. A place for all things, but all things in their proper place. 

3 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

🤣😂🤣

In all seriousness wabisabi works well with stuff like his post-apocalyptic outfit sets, but I would never want a wabisabi swimsuit. A place for all things, but all things in their proper place. 

the idea of a wabi-sabi swimsuit made me properly laugh out loud XD gotta say

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions. It would be a lot to quote everyone lol

 

Ah, forgive me for getting the Volks prices wrong. I was going off of what my roomie said since he's done considerably more research than me.

I saw the whole "voolks doolpa" thing when I Was looking stuff up, so no need for screenshots. But it does seem kinda crazy how things apparently keep escalating over the years. 

To be fully honest, the main reason I even wanted a smart doll was to make Shura. Resin wasn't cutting it because I wanted specifically anime style for them, and I'm not a huge fan of Volk's DD (of any kind) bodies. (No offense to anyone that loves them~)

It's kinda funny to realize I jumped into a drama pit when it comes to anything about the creator. But I'm probably looking at it much differently than everyone else because I haven't been emotionally involved yet. And I kinda hope to keep it that way. ;w;

I'm just nosy. XD

1 hour ago, ButtonsMcGee said:

Resin wasn't cutting it because I wanted specifically anime style for them

SQ Labs makes anime style resin dolls, and I am pretty sure they sell blank heads.