The Facebook debacle & other issues

At least that includes a release date / plans for some of the licensed dolls we were questioning the likelihood of. Even if the post is from back in May we know when to look for things.

On 9/22/2020 at 11:40 AM, SeirenMachina said:

Honestly the only way I'd buy a Smart Doll after looking at this thread is secondhand from here/mandarake/YJA or in person where I can check it before I leave the store (and hopefully deal with a nice staff member not Senpai) 😊

In my (one) previous experience in talking to him at the Mirai store, he was nice... But that was like 2-3 years ago? Around the time he started teasing Justice iirc. All the staff members I've interacted with are incredibly nice each of the times I went. ( my last visit to the Mirai store was March of this year ) The man who was ringing up my sister's purchase and my friends purchase even suggested that they combine their purchase to qualify for tax free... which was surprising tbh, but really nice of them to bring it up. 

 

On 9/22/2020 at 7:32 PM, monkeypizzasonic said:

I am fully planning on sneaking into the Smartdoll Store next time I go to Japan. Not sure if I'll actually buy anything, since I can only fit so many dolls in my suitcase and I could probably get an entire Volks outfit for the price of one piece of clothing there...but it looks fun. (Maybe they'll have the spare parts bin out or some kind of DIY kit.)

 

I don't think you'd need to sneak in-- unless you are carrying a Volks doll with you lol. The last few times I went the only 'outlet' things they had were the hands, eyes, wigs, clothes & shoes. I believe the outlet parts are only put out during special sales that he used to announce thru twitter ( and usually happened on a Sunday ).  But that all might change by next year since they seem to have shuffled their display room around. I highly recommend you rent a pocket wifi if you don't have an international data plan. Google maps in Japan can also tell you the train times and if there are any train delays, which helped me a lot when I went ^^

 

On 9/22/2020 at 10:03 PM, ButtonsMcGee said:

Oh man, now I can't wait for my trip to Japan in February (provided the travel doesn't get pushed back) because I'd PAY to see a bear at the front door. But it will be interesting seeing what the store is like face to face. Honestly I mostly just want the ability to see the SmD Plus face to face and to get to root around the chaos outlet by hand instead of waiting for see what mystery meat you get sent to you.

Also I looked up that "No ticket" scene after you mentioned it and I got a good laugh out of it. XD

To be honest, the first time I went I was surprised how small it felt compared to the IG photos. Granted, there will probably be changes to his showroom whenever they reopen to the public. It is really nice being able to see the dolls faces from all angles. 

 

 

|'D I have mixed feelings about smd because I like the products and seeing the behind the scenes stuff--- but sometimes the things that get posted are just... wild.  Personally I don't think I'll be buying anything directly unless it's something I absolutely must have-- which thankfully hasn't happened for awhile. 

5 hours ago, Ayuuya said:

|'D I have mixed feelings about smd because I like the products and seeing the behind the scenes stuff--- but sometimes the things that get posted are just... wild.  Personally I don't think I'll be buying anything directly unless it's something I absolutely must have-- which thankfully hasn't happened for awhile. 

I've seen a few things here and there I thought were must-haves...and then I was able to talk myself out of them. I'll be sticking to Volks/Obitsu for vinyl and resin dolls for dark-skinned girls for now. 

11 hours ago, Ayuuya said:

To be honest, the first time I went I was surprised how small it felt compared to the IG photos.

Wide angle lenses distort perspective and make a space feel bigger than it is. Japan overall is very space conscious. 

12 hours ago, Ayuuya said:

To be honest, the first time I went I was surprised how small it felt compared to the IG photos. Granted, there will probably be changes to his showroom whenever they reopen to the public. It is really nice being able to see the dolls faces from all angles. 

|'D I have mixed feelings about smd because I like the products and seeing the behind the scenes stuff--- but sometimes the things that get posted are just... wild.  Personally I don't think I'll be buying anything directly unless it's something I absolutely must have-- which thankfully hasn't happened for awhile. 

I've noticed that's just a thing with Japan in general. All of the vlogs and pictures I see make everything look HUGE. Then whenever I go, it's all so tiny. They're really really good at jam-packing a bunch of stuff into little areas. Honestly their organizational skills amaze me. @-@

Eh, the way I see it, buying things used from someone usually means that they're going to turn around and buy from the official store again anyway, so the money still goes there. I could be wrong, of course, but I've seen that a lot. Like I buy chaos heads from people when I know it's a specific sculpt I want, and then they go and buy more chaos packs. 

I kinda prefer buying new because then I don't have another experience like with my Kizuna where she came to me really roughed up and there was nothing I could do to get a partial refund because Ebay would have made me get a FULL refund by returning the doll. So I really only go used if it's something I know I can't get or if the price is cheaper than what Danny's charging. (Still mad I missed out on a pair of the old discontinued boots for $55 from someone on Mercari.) 

That's just my way of looking at it though. I totally respect your choice to try and buy used whenever you can. 

Really sad To see that happened. Makes me not really start with a smart doll because of that...

On 9/27/2020 at 12:45 PM, ButtonsMcGee said:

I've noticed that's just a thing with Japan in general. All of the vlogs and pictures I see make everything look HUGE. Then whenever I go, it's all so tiny. They're really really good at jam-packing a bunch of stuff into little areas. Honestly their organizational skills amaze me. @-@

Eh, the way I see it, buying things used from someone usually means that they're going to turn around and buy from the official store again anyway, so the money still goes there. I could be wrong, of course, but I've seen that a lot. Like I buy chaos heads from people when I know it's a specific sculpt I want, and then they go and buy more chaos packs. 

I kinda prefer buying new because then I don't have another experience like with my Kizuna where she came to me really roughed up and there was nothing I could do to get a partial refund because Ebay would have made me get a FULL refund by returning the doll. So I really only go used if it's something I know I can't get or if the price is cheaper than what Danny's charging. (Still mad I missed out on a pair of the old discontinued boots for $55 from someone on Mercari.) 

That's just my way of looking at it though. I totally respect your choice to try and buy used whenever you can. 

Haha yeah I agree. I aspire to one day be even half as organized;;; 
Lol I must admit, part of preferring to buy used would be because I'm always on the hunt for a good deal... x'D That or I will buy new elsewhere if it is of comparable quality and cheaper in price. It also helps that the clothes that is sold at smd doesn't fit my girls aesthetics. 

 

On 9/27/2020 at 5:49 AM, monkeypizzasonic said:

I've seen a few things here and there I thought were must-haves...and then I was able to talk myself out of them. I'll be sticking to Volks/Obitsu for vinyl and resin dolls for dark-skinned girls for now. 

Lol I've been able to talk myself out of buying a lot of things by telling myself that I can just make it -- and then never making it because I forget about it lol. Honestly the only thing I keep following him for is to see his upcoming collab dolls, even if I'm not particularly invested in whatever collab series he says is in the works. 

I've been debating on whether or not to dabble into the larger obitsu dolls. So far nothing has piqued my interest yet ( to my wallets relief lol )

7 hours ago, Ayuuya said:

Haha yeah I agree. I aspire to one day be even half as organized;;; 
Lol I must admit, part of preferring to buy used would be because I'm always on the hunt for a good deal... x'D That or I will buy new elsewhere if it is of comparable quality and cheaper in price. It also helps that the clothes that is sold at smd doesn't fit my girls aesthetics. 

Ah yeah, that makes sense. Clothing-wise, second hand prices are better so long as they aren't the SmD clothes. I've noticed people who re-sell pretty much anything SmD products of any kind severely over-charge for things. The dolls themselves I keep seeing being sold at almost double what they where originally worth, whether their where discontinued or not. The clothing is sometimes the same. 

But used clothing that wasn't originally from the SmD company is usually much cheaper and just as good of quality., 

1 hour ago, ButtonsMcGee said:

Ah yeah, that makes sense. Clothing-wise, second hand prices are better so long as they aren't the SmD clothes. I've noticed people who re-sell pretty much anything SmD products of any kind severely over-charge for things. The dolls themselves I keep seeing being sold at almost double what they where originally worth, whether their where discontinued or not. The clothing is sometimes the same. 

But used clothing that wasn't originally from the SmD company is usually much cheaper and just as good of quality., 

This has been made worse because the prices for the optional parts were raised during the pandemic. I don't know if it was to help cushion the blow from using DHL Shipping or Vinyl supplies issues but either way, the bust parts went from $50 to $79USD. Now, there's some people who have old part and are selling them at the new prices and making a huge profit. Especially in the old cocoa and milk skin tones. I mean, Danny low key scalps his own customers with those Garage Sale Prototypes so just ridiculously high prices for reselling are common in the SmD Community. 

The main reason why I think this happens so often is a lot of SmD owners are new to the vinyl hobby and their only exposure to vinyl dolls is through SmD and a lot of them don't realize just how much something is worth. This isn't exclusive to SmD community only cause I've spoken to a few new DD owners who got scalped because they didn't know any better (shame on those sellers!!) but I think this is even worse in the SmD community because they see Danny doing it too. 

52 minutes ago, MaKayla_Panda said:

The main reason why I think this happens so often is a lot of SmD owners are new to the vinyl hobby and their only exposure to vinyl dolls is through SmD and a lot of them don't realize just how much something is worth. This isn't exclusive to SmD community only cause I've spoken to a few new DD owners who got scalped because they didn't know any better (shame on those sellers!!) but I think this is even worse in the SmD community because they see Danny doing it too. 

And he is very much against reselling of his dolls. So I still don't get why he doesn't sell his prototypes at more proper prices, because yes, he is indeed encouraging scalpers with those prices...

1 hour ago, MaKayla_Panda said:

This has been made worse because the prices for the optional parts were raised during the pandemic. I don't know if it was to help cushion the blow from using DHL Shipping or Vinyl supplies issues but either way, the bust parts went from $50 to $79USD. Now, there's some people who have old part and are selling them at the new prices and making a huge profit. Especially in the old cocoa and milk skin tones. I mean, Danny low key scalps his own customers with those Garage Sale Prototypes so just ridiculously high prices for reselling are common in the SmD Community. 

The main reason why I think this happens so often is a lot of SmD owners are new to the vinyl hobby and their only exposure to vinyl dolls is through SmD and a lot of them don't realize just how much something is worth. This isn't exclusive to SmD community only cause I've spoken to a few new DD owners who got scalped because they didn't know any better (shame on those sellers!!) but I think this is even worse in the SmD community because they see Danny doing it too. 

Yeah, I did notice that the bust pieces where very expensive. We got the medium one for one of my dolls and it felt like an awful lot for an option part. 

And you're right about that. The first doll I bought was about $800 because I panicked about not being able to get Milk skin anymore, and the doll was in pretty rough condition. I've seen people selling Eiji's for $1000 or more, and rather than anyone calling them out on it, people are still legitimately buying them. They could legitimately buy two dolls for that price. 

32 minutes ago, Yumeiro said:

And he is very much against reselling of his dolls. So I still don't get why he doesn't sell his prototypes at more proper prices, because yes, he is indeed encouraging scalpers with those prices...

He's probably trying to justify it as the doll being "one of a kind." Having the face-up paint be one of a kind is one thing, but it shouldn't have that much of an extra charge. Maybe $100-$200 extra. 

But not charging $1000-$2000 for the darn things. ;w;

Thing is, people keep buying them. So they're just justifying the prices. His prototype dolls do eventually go down in price when someone doesn't buy them. Bit by bit. But people keep snatching up certain ones the instant he puts them out. 

As long as people keep paying retail or more than retail prices for used items, then the prices will always stay that high. There is definitely a big group of people who are willing to buy discontinued items for well over the original price and pretty much anything that goes up in the Smart Doll shop for whatever price is put on it. I think there are enough rich people in the fan groups to keep the prices from ever dropping, and those people really influence newcomers and people with less money, mostly unintentionally.

 

A lot of times I feel like the groups are a great example of the downside of capitalism and social media. All the new stuff coming out all the time, the wealthy buying loads of it and sharing their purchases, the encouraging of buying more and more, the scarcity of items, the fact it is almost instant gratification. I know it sounds like I blame rich people, and I really don't.  But, I see a lot of people have trouble stepping back and seeing what is reasonable. There was a thread in one group that asked what would you tell a newbie starting to collect Smart Dolls. Almost every answer was if you like it better buy it now because it will be gone soon. The FB groups really encourage that mentality, and as much as I enjoy the groups, I could do without that part. 

1 hour ago, ButtonsMcGee said:

Thing is, people keep buying them. So they're just justifying the prices.

It's just that he's been very vocal about being against such practices in the past

1 hour ago, Yumeiro said:

It's just that he's been very vocal about being against such practices in the past

Oh no, I'm talking about Danny himself. Danny selling things like the prototype dolls for double, sometimes quadruple what a normal doll costs. 

2 hours ago, bluepita said:

As long as people keep paying retail or more than retail prices for used items, then the prices will always stay that high. There is definitely a big group of people who are willing to buy discontinued items for well over the original price and pretty much anything that goes up in the Smart Doll shop for whatever price is put on it. I think there are enough rich people in the fan groups to keep the prices from ever dropping, and those people really influence newcomers and people with less money, mostly unintentionally

Sometimes it's unintentional. Sometimes it's gate-keeping. It all depends on the specific person. A lot of the people I've met on this website in particular have been pretty nice about things, but I've also met a pretty vast majority in the doll hobby in general who get super gate-keepy and look down on those who can't afford the higher priced dolls. 

"What's that? You don't have a $500+ doll? Your collection is automatically worthless. What's that? You can't afford $100+ doll jeans? Those clothes you made yourself aren't worth shit. Come back when you can play with the big boys."

Again, not saying that about anyone in particular on this website. So please don't think I'm saying that about anyone here. But uh... it is behavior I've seen elsewhere and seen a LOT of.

2 hours ago, bluepita said:

A lot of times I feel like the groups are a great example of the downside of capitalism and social media. All the new stuff coming out all the time, the wealthy buying loads of it and sharing their purchases, the encouraging of buying more and more, the scarcity of items, the fact it is almost instant gratification. I know it sounds like I blame rich people, and I really don't.  But, I see a lot of people have trouble stepping back and seeing what is reasonable. There was a thread in one group that asked what would you tell a newbie starting to collect Smart Dolls. Almost every answer was if you like it better buy it now because it will be gone soon. The FB groups really encourage that mentality, and as much as I enjoy the groups, I could do without that part. 

Honestly I totally agree. I know you're not shit-talking people with more money. You're basically saying that they buy it because they can and don't realize that the prices might in fact be too high for what they're paying for. Because to them in particular, it doesn't feel too high. Right?

I honestly did feel that way jumping into these particular dolls as well. Heck, that's why I bought the things that I did. I figured they would run out and I might never see them again. Like the Crystal Pumps. They where out of stock when I first started buying stuff and when I saw them back in the shop again, I HAD to buy them. It's kinda anxiety-inducing at times because it elicits a panic in you that you need to get it or it will be gone forever. Then you'll either never see it again, or you'll see it somewhere for double the price and then be upset that you had to pay that much more for it. So there's the need to buy-buy-buy-buy-buy!

Don't get me wrong, I love these dolls. If I didn't, I wouldn't have 4 of them. (Or rather, 3 with a Cortex on the way.) And I'm totally not shit-talking the vinyl side of the hobby. Honestly I think Resin might be worse. (I say as I eye my like, 7 Resin dolls that I bought before I jumped into Vinyl). I just think that the problems with the Vinyl companies seem more noticeable because there are considerably less companies that make them. Really, there's only 4 (plus Vindoll technically, so I guess 5.) So we don't exactly get a large group to compare business practices and models to. 

Thankfully most of them have a pretty good variety of dolls for us all to choose from.

53 minutes ago, ButtonsMcGee said:

Oh no, I'm talking about Danny himself. Danny selling things like the prototype dolls for double, sometimes quadruple what a normal doll costs. 

Yeah, that's what I meant - Danny has been very against scalping practices. So for him to do it himself now...

On the topic of Prototype Garage dolls...I have witnessed someone buy like 4 or 5 of those at ONE TIME. And then buy more the next time he put dolls in the garage again. They must be very wealthy, and seem to like to flaunt it. 😬

29 minutes ago, DaemonNoyz said:

They must be very wealthy, and seem to like to flaunt it.

Volks does unique SD for charity auctions benefitting the make a wish foundation. Those dolls sell for 10s of thousands, and apparently one lady has collected most of them. The one at the 2019 LA Dolpa sold for something like 40k. They even flew the dressmaker over for the event and introduced her. 

Its very understandable that he sells product at a price that it sells. If someone would offer me more money for my product then, hell yeah, I would take it. So if there are collectors willing to pay 2k for a "unique" prototype, then why sell it for 500$? 

Product is always worth as much, as someone is willing to pay for it. So I wouldn't blame any company for... Working like a company haha 

The only thing that I don't get in doll hobby is the horrible gate keeping sales of used dolls. Every forum have a marketplace, that isn't accessible(on some websites - it's ridiculous, no working adult who want to just start casually will go to lengths required) , I don't see many dolls on Europe eBay or local websites, maybe some Facebook groups would be more accessible, but I never spotted a smart doll on the ones I looked, and I don't really use Facebook. That makes it super hard to actually buy used dolls. I thrive on used stuff, and feel very much like a sucker, when paying full price, but I will simply have to. I mean, a set of cortex heads are what, 56 euro. People are selling them on Facebook for 80 euro EACH. And I don't know if it's brand's fault, that makes this situation, or just... Fandom. 

1 hour ago, forged_in_mess said:

The only thing that I don't get in doll hobby is the horrible gate keeping sales of used dolls. Every forum have a marketplace, that isn't accessible(on some websites - it's ridiculous, no working adult who want to just start casually will go to lengths required)

This forum doesn’t show the marketplace to new members, basically people want time to know people before they risk sending them the large sums of money that move around this hobby. 

We haven’t had many issues, but there have been a few people who showed themselves to be untrustworthy shortly after joining. 

Just had an off the wall thought. Anyone remember before he started selling prototypes and chaos bits online? SmD fans would beg him to sell the stuff online, but he only sold the stuff outlet style on certain days in his actual store. It makes me wonder if he really pushed his Japanese fanbase so far away that that was the reason for him even offering prototypes and whatnot finally online. I do remember when he started to sell online he threatened to take that option away for everyone if too many people complained about their 'wasabi' nature. Knowing now how he has alienated most of his Japanese fanbase, it makes total sense that he does sell the stuff online and for huge mark up. I have no idea what his rejected dolls and parts sold for in the store, but I bet he didn't sell any old skin cocoa Moonlights for $2K.

2 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

Volks does unique SD for charity auctions benefitting the make a wish foundation. Those dolls sell for 10s of thousands, and apparently one lady has collected most of them. The one at the 2019 LA Dolpa sold for something like 40k. They even flew the dressmaker over for the event and introduced her. 

Aww, that's really sweet that they do that though. Make a Wish foundation is really wonderful!

3 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

Volks does unique SD for charity auctions benefitting the make a wish foundation. Those dolls sell for 10s of thousands, and apparently one lady has collected most of them. The one at the 2019 LA Dolpa sold for something like 40k. They even flew the dressmaker over for the event and introduced her. 

And this is where action speaks more than words. You don't see Volks harping on and on about how well they treat their employees, and how they're not in the business for the money (every business IS a business for the money lol). Danny on the other hand... scalping customers via the prototype garage. Not in it for the money? Yea right. *insert eyeroll*

Edited September 30, 2020 by bbotss
I forgot the eyeroll.

1 hour ago, Deyja said:

Just had an off the wall thought. Anyone remember before he started selling prototypes and chaos bits online? SmD fans would beg him to sell the stuff online, but he only sold the stuff outlet style on certain days in his actual store. It makes me wonder if he really pushed his Japanese fanbase so far away that that was the reason for him even offering prototypes and whatnot finally online. I do remember when he started to sell online he threatened to take that option away for everyone if too many people complained about their 'wasabi' nature. Knowing now how he has alienated most of his Japanese fanbase, it makes total sense that he does sell the stuff online and for huge mark up. I have no idea what his rejected dolls and parts sold for in the store, but I bet he didn't sell any old skin cocoa Moonlights for $2K.

 

I mean, I think part of that was also the storefront not being open to the public because of the pandemic... 

7 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

This forum doesn’t show the marketplace to new members, basically people want time to know people before they risk sending them the large sums of money that move around this hobby. 

We haven’t had many issues, but there have been a few people who showed themselves to be untrustworthy shortly after joining. 

I can understand selling, I wouldn't want to buy from unknown person too. But buying? And rules on this forum aren't as tough as on others(and it feels much more welcoming here as well ❤️) . On some forum, I have account for more than a year, but I am not much of a talker, so I was mostly posting my diy rarely. And I was refused access to marketplace because... I made too many of my posts in month period of time 😂 yeah, well I have more time during pandemic, nothing weird about it 😂 I can get it for selling, recasts and stuff. But when you are a grown up adult, working 50 h a week- you won't spend time making posts and stuff to apply for access to buy stuff 😂 so I'm not surprised that people buy new ones from manufacturers because they are more accessible for an outsider. 

I'm just surprised that second hand market isn't working that well for someone in Europe, who want to get into the hobby in 2020. Even with gate keeping SmD does - I feel like in hobby we create more of it, keeping up the prices of used goods high because the are even harder to obtain than new ones. 

That’s primarily due to market constraints I think.  I encounter the same thing with alternative Japanese fashion, from big ticket items like lolita dresses to even casual clothing.

The reason prices are generally cheaper on the Japanese market is that there aren’t any supply constraints.  There is a large pool of second hand dolls and items, as well as new first party items.  That’s why it can be much much cheaper to buy directly from Japan.  I buy all of my clothing directly at this point.  Prices get really wonky in western markets very quickly because of supply constraints.

With limited production products, the highly sought after will always been a high price in the aftermarket, especially if the buyer feels there are no competing products.  You don’t want item A, you want item B.  It doesn’t matter what price Item A is if you only want Item B.

There may only be one Item B in English speaking markets, so the person selling can change whatever they feel like and someone will pay it.  Maybe not you, maybe not me, but someone will buy it.

But there may be many Item B in Japanese markets, you just have to be patient and watch and also be comfortable navigating Japanese sites and handling your own orders (or have an account with a reliable deputy). 
 

New buyers often don’t know how to buy from Japanese markets, or are intimidated by the idea, so that limits them to things in the English speaking market.  Additionally, there will always be some people who don’t ever want to buy from the Japanese market for whatever reason.  For them, there is only the English speaking market.

The more there are available competing products for Item B, the more normalized it’s price will be.  But with the unpredictability of SMD releases and discontinuations, that can make the prices of individual dolls fluctuate, sometimes wildly.  It also creates that FOMO effect, where people feel that they have to buy within seconds or miss out forever.  There is also no customization market, so you can’t just buy a blank head and a body and then have someone make it into the girl you want.  You can only buy whole dolls and there are no standard models (or skin tones).

For SMD it’s also a little different because there honestly don’t seem to be many SMDs on the Japanese second hand market.  They do come up from time to time though.  You just have to be watchful.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Gabihime

On 9/29/2020 at 8:33 AM, MaKayla_Panda said:

The main reason why I think this happens so often is a lot of SmD owners are new to the vinyl hobby and their only exposure to vinyl dolls is through SmD and a lot of them don't realize just how much something is worth. 

This is exactly right. I began researching BJDs within the last month and I experienced exactly this. I started with SmD based on a YouTuber I follow and when I started comparing I realised something was off. 

Outside of sculpt, are there any major differences between SmD and DD?