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42 minutes ago, Veravey said:

Outside of sculpt, are there any major differences between SmD and DD?

I don’t have one but I’ve seen many in person. The most important difference will be how it appeals to you. In terms of construction they are different, with DDs getting more refined over time, having more body styles, and being more customizable. But it’s secondary compared to how much you just desire one over the other. 

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Gabihime

At this point I would say a major difference is customization options.  (SMD also does have the darkest tone for girls now that I know of, but there are Medium dark skinned girls for almost every brand, and you can customize yourself with either paint or dye, depending on tastes).  Whether you’re looking at Dollfie Dream from Volks, or Vinyl dolls from Azone, Obitsu, Parabox, or Angel Philia/Pink Drops/VMF50, these dolls offer a greater customization experience because you can buy many different pieces and many different heads and combine them to get exactly what you want. SMD is more like, you buy a finished product with no clothes.  Pretty much like the Volks Standard Models.  Volks and Azone also regularly do professionally finished licensed dolls, so if you like a particular character, that is also an option.  SMD has been doing some, but not as many, and they do seem more skewed to a western demographic.  Cost may also be a factor.  It’s probably least expensive to begin with an obitsu or obitsu hybrid.  You also should think about the wardrobe for the doll.  Volks regularly releases new outfits for Dollfie Dream, and Azone releases some semi regularly as well.  Ultimately it does come down to what you like personally.  Aesthetics are different for each line.  For me, the heights and builds of my characters are important, and SMD only offers one body size for girls.  Volks and Obitsu offer several to choose from (although I think the 60F is now discontinued).  Don’t be scared.  It’s a lot of information to absorb at once, but I promise you’ll pick it up pretty quickly.  My only advice would be don’t fall to FOMO (fear of missing out). These dolls cost a lot of money no matter what you choose, so you should make sure that you get what you want after thinking about it carefully!  (You can also choose heads from a different maker, like Dollce and make a hybrid doll!). You should choose what you like best after doing research!  That will be the thing that makes you the happiest.

Edited by Gabihime
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Veravey
5 minutes ago, Gabihime said:

My only advice would be don’t fall to FOMO (fear of missing out). These dolls cost a lot of money no matter what you choose, so you should make sure that you get what you want after thinking about it carefully!

Yes, this! I'm so tired of FOMO coming from so many hobby avenues like games, figures, and more.

And thank you both for the explanations. You're both right, preference is important considering it's a huge investment that you'll interact with for many years.

I can't remember if it was this thread or another (maybe the one about milk being discontinued and going sour) but I love second hand markets. Hopefully the BJD one will continue to grow.

But for real, I hope companies begin to respect how stressful and disrespectful FOMO is. Unfortunately I doubt they will any time soon.


ftRtwRu9355h.gif.886b75a4e71a6125e1f5c114f2fd2e47.gif

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Gabihime

Yes!  If you want to look at the second hand vinyl market in Japan, one of the best places to buy from is Mandarake.  You can also see what the prices are like for different pieces to compare!  Be aware, some stuff might be NSFW at this link!  I’m linking directly to the larger vinyl doll section.  If you see something you like and it’s out of stock, you can put it on a wish list and you’ll be notified if they get another.  Don’t be scared of completely Japanese webpages either, if you’re not fluent.  Just install a browser extension.  I only read at about the kindergarten level in Japanese lol.  Google sensei can help you even if you have no Japanese at all!

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Yumeiro
4 hours ago, Veravey said:

Outside of sculpt, are there any major differences between SmD and DD?

Pose-ability differs a bit. You can best check that out on youtube.
Here is a forum post about the bodies, and here is an sort of in-depth guide

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moerunamida
4 hours ago, Veravey said:

This is exactly right. I began researching BJDs within the last month and I experienced exactly this. I started with SmD based on a YouTuber I follow and when I started comparing I realised something was off. 

Outside of sculpt, are there any major differences between SmD and DD?

While I think that SmD bodies are more aesthetically pleasing, DDs feel far more sturdy and less likely to break. They are also a bit heavier unless you are considering an MDD (mini Dollfie Dream). When I got my first SmD, I was too afraid to bend her wrist for months, because the tension was so tight. Broken wrists are very common with SmDs. DDs (at least the newer ones) seem to have a softer vinyl. This feels velvety soft to the touch but it also makes them more prone to staining. I never had staining issues with my SmDs, but I was always careful. I love a lot of the make up on smarties, but their faces are very flat compared to dollfies. Spare parts are far easier and cheaper to come across for DDs, and as far as I know no one has ever been banned from shopping at a Volks store like people have at Culture Japan. It all comes down to what do you like and want most out of your doll.

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Veravey
3 hours ago, Gabihime said:

Yes!  If you want to look at the second hand vinyl market in Japan, one of the best places to buy from is Mandarake.

I LOVE Mandarake. I've used them several times over the years for anime figures. They haven't disappointed me yet on declaring any faults on used items so I trust them. I actually like AmiAmi's system more, but it's too bad they don't carry nearly as much DD etc. stuff.

 

34 minutes ago, Yumeiro said:

Pose-ability differs a bit. You can best check that out on youtube.
Here is a forum post about the bodies, and here is an sort of in-depth guide

Super helpful, thank you! The photo's demonstrating everything are really nice.

 

23 minutes ago, Deyja said:

Broken wrists are very common with SmDs. DDs (at least the newer ones) seem to have a softer vinyl.

Great info, I had no idea wrists were a known "problem" on SmDs. And yes, I can't wait to see how soft vinyl is, I keep hearing everyone in videos talking about it.

 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I don't want to stray any further from the original topic of this thread (*´ω`*)

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Katsudon
20 hours ago, Deyja said:

When I got my first SmD, I was too afraid to bend her wrist for months, because the tension was so tight. Broken wrists are very common with SmDs.

Oh god this! When I first got mine, her hand came off before her wrist bent XD I was trying to be careful and wiggle it to find the sweet spot; then pop! No hand!

It reminded me a lot of Blythe collecting. How the first time you get one out the box, you pull the string to change the eyes and it's stiff as hell and you just feel like it's going to break... but it never does. XD Though obviously I was a lot more cautious with my Smart Doll because they do sometimes break. But hey, nice to have that experience of dread.

Before I bought one I watched a youtube review, and the reviewer was just bending joints this way and that without fear. And I'm like "how!?!?" (This was during the period where I believed Danny's posts that make it seem like they'll snap to bits in your hands)

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LuluChan

Any thoughts on everything that got added to Prototype Garage? I know so many people were waiting for more boys, and mostly the cocoa one, and years after with no news they pop on the garage with a "they didn't make the cut". I'm sad for everyone who wanted them, some of the guys on the garage are very handsome.

I'm also very curious about what you guys think of the cocoa boys prototypes, I remember all the discussion around the cocoa girls and I found it very educating and enriching.

Link to prototype garage

(((Plus another Moonlight scalped by him lmao)))

Edited by LuluChan

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LuluChan

Sorry for the double post but I saw this Instagram post about the gatekeeping and I can't get over how he says he must do this because many people give a wrong email or adress. Does he think everyone who's not his client is dumb? Is he implying it? Does he think we're all dumb and we don't know it's just gatekeeping and elitism? I don't know how to feel about that. 

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Gabihime

Oh my god.  That’s so frustrating.  I cannot even describe my level of frustration seeing those boys up in prototype garage and the price tags they went for.

The comment about the first orders thing and the gate keeping just makes me want to cry though.  I’m honestly so disappointed.

THIS IS WHY WE CAN’T HAVE NICE THINGS, DANIEL.

I like smd.  I want to like smd.

But it’s really, really hard.

I like how DD boys are now more accessible that SMD ones even using a proxy for DDC.  With these prices for the boys, the aftermarket is going to skyrocket.  I really like Hugo too.

I can’t believe that slush casting myself in my own house has become a legitimate option for boy vinyl dolls.

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Gabihime

I missed my window for editing, so sorry about the double post as well.  Here is my deranged, angry rant lol.

Smart Doll and the Female Audience

I’m angry because this is extremely disrespectful to women buyers.  The market for male dolls is heavily skewed toward women.  Women tend to buy both male and female dolls, while men tend to buy largely only female dolls (there are some exceptions obviously).  Danny used to talk really big about making the dolls people wanted that Volks wouldn’t make, like male dolls, but the way he’s treated male dolls has been so depressing and frustrating.  He pays lip service toward wanting to make products that women will find appealing, but then can’t be bothered to actually make the products, or attempt to keep them in stock.  The new male dolls coming through the superhero licenses are not made for a female audience either, but a male one, western comic book collectors. I’m not saying some women won’t buy them, but they’re not made for women for sure.  As the crowning slap on the face, these dolls get quietly dropped in prototype garage for a mint, and the people who want male dolls are supposed to pay that price with a smile and then ask for more.  If this were strictly a business decision, I could understand it, but it’s clearly predicated on what DC personally finds interesting or appealing.  Most of his decisions don’t make sense in any other context but this.  Male dolls in every market sell fewer than female dolls, from fashion dolls up to DD.  The exception to this is BJDs where the collectors skew heavily female and there are tons and tons of makers who only make male dolls.  Vinyl armature dolls are hard welded to the BJD market because of Volks.  People who collect one often collect the other.  People discover one type of doll, then move to the other.  We shop at the same places for clothes, eyes, wigs, accessories.  There are plenty of women who own vinyl armature anime dolls who have wanted boy dolls forever.  We are a real market.  We want to buy products.  Volks finally understood that by making DDB and DDSB, which you can build through DDC, but for more muscular dolls, our option is now only Vindoll, which isn’t a purely anime aesthetic.  I’m really happy that Vindoll exists because it fits my aesthetics perfectly, but I love ojisan, and not everyone does.  I asked Granado if they would consider crowd funding for vinyl doll bodies of some of their other resin doll bodies, and they said they were interested, it’s just difficult to do vinyl during COVID19.  I think the Zen, Adagio, Supermodel, and Lads bodies in vinyl would do a lot for women collectors, and I hope that once manufacturing becomes more normalized, we get a chance to have these.  I like the male smart doll body.  I wanted one in tea. I had been planning one since before the launch of Lelouch.  Now it looks like I’ve missed my chance forever, unless I want to pony up a lot on the secondary market.

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CrazyDollPerson

SMD plus

I don’t know how to insert the whole IG post but do you believe that many people returned the plus dolls?!

 

In any case, I am thoroughly over it. The dolls are pretty but I will never buy any items from this brand again. The whole thing feels toxic to me from all the passive aggressive bs with DC and the cult fanbase. 

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Yumeiro
1 hour ago, Gabihime said:

Danny used to talk really big about making the dolls people wanted that Volks wouldn’t make, like male dolls--

--it’s clearly predicated on what DC personally finds interesting or appealing.

He does go on about how he makes dolls for himself and his team, now. Not for us/others/customers.
And that money is not an issue...
I find it all to be bullshit; there are contradictions all over the place.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you do not market the male dolls well, then of course they won't sell as much! He seem to expect them to sell just because they are boys, without anything else going for them.
If he'd show them more and with varying clothes and wigs, I'm sure they'd start selling as well as the girls.

 

4 minutes ago, CrazyDollPerson said:

but do you believe that many people returned the plus dolls?!

I wouldn't be surprised if they were bullied to return the dolls, if they made remarks about the pose-ability

Edited by Yumeiro
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Gabihime

I think you’re probably right.  Has the smart doll store ever had much in the way of clothing for boys?  I don’t know because I was absent for so long.

I really liked the Hugo face and I think a lot of girls would.  I actually liked all the faces in the prototype garage, more or less.  When you randomly release items and people don’t have time to save up, or know when the dolls will even be available, then that makes it super hard to sell them.

And right now, the only way to have any chance at buying a boy doll is to buy a girl smart doll, which not everyone wants (maybe the head sculpt you like is discontinued right now, or is not in the right skin tone, whatever).  So even for one of the he pebbles, you’re looking at the cost of a DDC boy doll with deputy included, and doing that you obviously get to choose skin tone, head, and makeup, because you have to buy two dolls to get the one you actually want.  And that’s not considering the prototype garage dolls.

How does he know that no one wants the boy dolls in cocoa?  They were never for sale.  And I’m not convinced he does any kind of market research at all (especially now that he’s focused on just making whatever he wants).  Like I said, this feels more and more like a vanity/personal hobby project every day.

It just makes me so sad and disappointed.

And it also makes me angry because it is insulting.

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Lynn

"Only one was ever made of this Jim candidate that didn't make the cut. The mold is the same as Eiji and Crimson but I'm not quite sure he looks good in cocoa which is why we are working on a new cocoa guy mold."

Quote above is from Jim Candidate product page. Bolding is made by me. Don't lose your hopes for cocoa boys just yet! I have to admit that I didn't like any of the cocoa boys that ended up in the garage sale, so maybe I'm hoping in vain, but... I'm actually more hyped about cocoa boys than I have been in the long time!

But where, oh where does he whip out those Moonlights?! 😤

Edited by Lynn

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Gabihime

I do hope some other cocoa boys come out, and that what we’ve been seeing is a result of COVID19.  I just feel like they may be like 3+ years away.  I don’t know.  I guess keep hoping.

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Lynn
49 minutes ago, Gabihime said:

I do hope some other cocoa boys come out, and that what we’ve been seeing is a result of COVID19.  I just feel like they may be like 3+ years away.  I don’t know.  I guess keep hoping.

I wouldn't be surprised if it took longer than 3 years.

HOWEVER, I just noticed that ALL cocoa girls are put on sale except Reflection, Liberty and Tomorrow. Some huge alarm bells are ringing inside of my brains at the moment. He isn't going to discontinue ALL those other cocoa girls without a warning, now does he...? O.O""" I think it's wise to order any of those cocoa girls on sale right now if you just can and wan't them...

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Gabihime

That means 100% the new face sculpt he’s working on for cocoa boys is semi real.

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forged_in_mess
41 minutes ago, Lynn said:

I wouldn't be surprised if it took longer than 3 years.

HOWEVER, I just noticed that ALL cocoa girls are put on sale except Reflection, Liberty and Tomorrow. Some huge alarm bells are ringing inside of my brains at the moment. He isn't going to discontinue ALL those other cocoa girls without a warning, now does he...? O.O""" I think it's wise to order any of those cocoa girls on sale right now if you just can and wan't them...

I can see cinammon girl on sale too, I wouldn't  panic. Looks like he is putting lower prices on stock that was stuck, to free space. Ah, I would love one of those cortex sets so much, but I'm not gonna buy a vinyl doll just to get second one in cortex :(

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Yumeiro
3 hours ago, Gabihime said:

Has the smart doll store ever had much in the way of clothing for boys?

Nah. As far as I remember, two of each (shoes, pants, tops). Not counting the items that can be shared, like hoodies. So no real dedication toward the boys

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Zippercore
4 hours ago, Gabihime said:

So even for one of the he pebbles, you’re looking at the cost of a DDC boy doll with deputy included

Oh man, really? Because last time I looked, DDC boys were ¥61800 if you just happened to walk into Doll Point, and proxies charge at least ¥10000 more from my understanding? I'm not sure if that includes shipping. My He Pebble was ¥56000 before shipping. The biggest pain was having to sit and stalk the page all night for weeks. 

Side note, make sure to watch the page from 4pm-8pm JST tonight and tomorrow. If the pattern holds true, there might be another drop of something.

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Gabihime

I meant factoring in buying a smart doll to get the privilege of buying a he pebble.  For someone who doesn’t currently have a smart doll and wants to buy a boy smart doll as their first.  Unless I am completely misunderstanding my reading and you don’t have to currently have a smart doll to buy one of the Only the Brave.

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HanaLuka
4 hours ago, CrazyDollPerson said:

SMD plus

I don’t know how to insert the whole IG post but do you believe that many people returned the plus dolls?!

If anything, I'm surprised that so many SmD Plus dolls were sold, since I hardly ever came across (pics of) people that actually owned them - I've heard more about people who signed up for a chance to get the SmD Plus.

Also, is the whole "It's bad karma to resell a returned doll, hence why we'd never resell any of the returned SmD Plus' " an actual thing or another "SmD company belief" thing? I feel really bad for those that were waiting ages to get a SmD Plus doll, only for this to happen.

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magique

What I hate most is that Danny Choo pretends to do market research, when in reality it seems like he just releases whatever he wants. There are lots of popular prototypes/items waiting to be released, but he randomly drops entirely new things that no one has seen before. And it's clear he doesn't want to sell boy dolls, for whatever reason, because, despite having all these cool prototypes that can be sold for thousands and are therefore very clearly desirable, he hasn't posted a single one on Instagram. After looking in the prototype garage, I have to ask, why on earth do the prototypes come with an orange cap like the chaos heads? That just adds insult to injury when you look at the price tag. 

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