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Injection vs vinyl

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belpita

Danny has been posting pictures of something called "injection model" manufacturing.

What do you think he is planning to do?

I understand that he would want to be able to make (a lot of) money off Smart Doll, but I'm not sure how I feel about a lowering of quality or material to achieve that. With this new method, won't there be a very visible seam along the leg?

 

"The vinyl line will co-exist with the injection version but vinyl can make only 1k pcs/month while injection 100k pcs/month - Dollmination."

C_UCnKaUwAA7oFk.jpg

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Misha-san

Yes, this method leaves very visible seam line, although if it is carefully removed with knife or something like that it is much better. And as long as Danny keeps also original method i think it is fine. It might also be better for people who really like Smart dolls but simply cannot afford one.

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Poofiemus

He's been wanting to do injection molded smart dolls for a long time, but. . . I can't quite fathom why??


Home: Agatha Heterodyne (DDDy 03), Nanoha Takamachi, Akemi Homura (Azone), Hatsune Miku, Abby Normal (Out of Base), Fate T. Harlaown, Yuuri Katsuki (DDB Kirito) Viktor Nikiforov (SMDB Eiji 2.0)

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Kumi

Danny is making money off the SmartDoll.

Vinyl SmD (or DD and similar, for that matter) is a difficult product to manufacture - small runs, high cost.

Much manual labor - cutting excess vinyl, putting it all together and such.

Injection molded SmD can be made in big batches at much lower costs - it may very well translate to much higher sales. Lower "bad parts" rate. Maybe more automatic production.

Profit for everyone

 

PS. However, it will be probably banned from all BJD sites as being "toy-like" ...

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K-2

Definitely faster cheaper, but a step back in quality. Of course that step back in quality isn't slowing sales of Barbies, Monster High, Everafter, etc. dolls.

I would expect a significant drop in price as well.


MVSig.jpg

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Kumi

It shouldn't be a big step back.

Looks like the frame remains the same, only the vinyl parts will be replaced by a new (stiffer) ones.

I think Danny woldn't want SmartDolls to be another low quality toy.

He wants Mirai (and her siblings) to take over the world and he may succeed

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Poofiemus
Definitely faster cheaper, but a step back in quality. Of course that step back in quality isn't slowing sales of Barbies, Monster High, Everafter, etc. dolls.

I would expect a significant drop in price as well.

 

I guess what confuses me is that I'm under the impression that a large-but-inexpensive doll isn't really a niche that would support 100K dolls/month level of volume. It's likely too big a hit in quality for adult collectors, but still too pricey and hard to store to hit the sweet spot for selling to kids. (See how Mattel's My Size Barbie and Barbie Best Friend large-size dolls keep popping up every few years, only to vanish after a fairly short time on the market.)

 

I mean, I could be wrong, but I also haven't the foggiest what kind of market research Danny has to support me being wrong, so in the end I'm just baffled.


Home: Agatha Heterodyne (DDDy 03), Nanoha Takamachi, Akemi Homura (Azone), Hatsune Miku, Abby Normal (Out of Base), Fate T. Harlaown, Yuuri Katsuki (DDB Kirito) Viktor Nikiforov (SMDB Eiji 2.0)

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Kumi

Google translates the original tweet as

"they can only make thousands of plants per month, whereas Smapla can make tens of thousands of bodies per month"

so it's like 10 times more, not 100.

If the current production rate is not big enough and Danny did some math and research, then maybe it's possible to sell several times more SmartDolls.

Maybe there is a demand for licensed character models being produced "just now for promotion", not after year or half a year like at Volks

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Misha-san
Google translates the original tweet as

"they can only make thousands of plants per month, whereas Smapla can make tens of thousands of bodies per month"

so it's like 10 times more, not 100.

If the current production rate is not big enough and Danny did some math and research, then maybe it's possible to sell several times more SmartDolls.

Maybe there is a demand for licensed character models being produced "just now for promotion", not after year or half a year like at Volks

 

There is english tweet as well that says 1k vs 100k.. unless you meant it that the english one has typo in the number?

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Mysha

I see a chance it in the injection molding for bringing fashion dolls out of the elite dolls collectors niche. If the dolls, which are mainly the same as the expensive collectible dolls - having the same molds, inner skeleton, changeable eyes and wigs - cost much less than the original ones, they may become more popular and not only bring new people to the hobby, but also be available for "normal" people who will never become a doll collector as such.

 

I don't think it makes much sense to compare them to Barbie or Monster High dolls. Instead, they should be compared to Pullips, Blythes, Dals or even little Azones. They are way cheaper than DD/SmD/BJD, but still not as cheap as playline barbies. And they are very popular also among younger teenagers, so they are definitely affordable.


37542208752_7cbdd8660f.jpg

 

- Kizuna [smart Doll] - Isabelle [saber Extra + Obitsu60] - Maya [DDS DDH-06] - Angelica [DD Sakuya] - Kitty [MDD Mariko] - Moonlight [smart Doll] - Emily [DD Miku] -

https://annasangels.capsel.org/

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Kumi
There is english tweet as well that says 1k vs 100k.. unless you meant it that the english one has typo in the number?

 

In my feed there was only one at first, the japanese one.

Well - there is a possibility to MAKE 100k bodies per month, but to SELL this amount is rather unlikely...

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Mimiyo3

So, is this going to be some permanent change or just an option? Cause I'm really not sure I'd care for it. I like that there's a bit of give to the vinyl pieces since that allows for a little bit more flexibility than they'd have otherwise, plus there's the aforementioned seams...


Present!

Miku, Aria, Celia, Melody, Aveline, Rin T, Ted, Chi, Yumi, Melanie, Rin K, Len, Ea, Alter, Illya, Rachel, Aelia, Matt, Jace, & E.N.O.

W.I.P.

Rose, Tara

Waiting

Hannah, Lucy, Sonya.

Neemos: Yuki & Mimi

Resins: Mizuumi & Aiko

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Kumi

Looks like permanent option

I mean, Danny was suggesting parallel, second line of SmartDolls, not a replacement.

 

Anyway, it's only a prototype. We'll wait, we'll see.

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Poofiemus
There is english tweet as well that says 1k vs 100k.. unless you meant it that the english one has typo in the number?

 

Well - there is a possibility to MAKE 100k bodies per month, but to SELL this amount is rather unlikely...

 

^Yes, this is what I'm getting at, with my source of confusion. Making them is one thing, getting them off the shelves is another kettle of fish entirely.


Home: Agatha Heterodyne (DDDy 03), Nanoha Takamachi, Akemi Homura (Azone), Hatsune Miku, Abby Normal (Out of Base), Fate T. Harlaown, Yuuri Katsuki (DDB Kirito) Viktor Nikiforov (SMDB Eiji 2.0)

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ToriaCrux

I think it's cool as long as they still sell the vinyl dolls. Just because they said they CAN make that many doesn't necessarily mean they will. It just means they can make more than they currently can. These are also cool for people who like the look of the dolls but don't want to pay for a doll that will get stained.


(・⊝・)

 

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DOA

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Mimiyo3

Well, I meant permanent as in replacing the normal vinyl bodies, meaning no more normal ones. Hopefully that's not the case. I'm relying on Danny currently for any manly men I need to make my OCs, bodies included and if that happened I probably wouldn't want smartdoll bodies anymore tbh.


Present!

Miku, Aria, Celia, Melody, Aveline, Rin T, Ted, Chi, Yumi, Melanie, Rin K, Len, Ea, Alter, Illya, Rachel, Aelia, Matt, Jace, & E.N.O.

W.I.P.

Rose, Tara

Waiting

Hannah, Lucy, Sonya.

Neemos: Yuki & Mimi

Resins: Mizuumi & Aiko

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Poofiemus
Well, I meant permanent as in replacing the normal vinyl bodies, meaning no more normal ones. Hopefully that's not the case. I'm relying on Danny currently for any manly men I need to make my OCs, bodies included and if that happened I probably wouldn't want smartdoll bodies anymore tbh.

 

Same. You will pry vinyl from my cold dead fingers.


Home: Agatha Heterodyne (DDDy 03), Nanoha Takamachi, Akemi Homura (Azone), Hatsune Miku, Abby Normal (Out of Base), Fate T. Harlaown, Yuuri Katsuki (DDB Kirito) Viktor Nikiforov (SMDB Eiji 2.0)

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sinclair

Business wise it makes sense as he's been headlining SmDs as fashion dolls. Those in the fashion world that use small mannequins can now buy an injected mold SmD to use in their home, school, or office. Might also mean a larger selection of 1/3 clothing for our girls.

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Mario

So basically these injection versions of SmD is just that the shell will no longer stain, the only unfortunate downside is that there will be a seemline. Danny confirmed this. He said both vinyl and injection lines will co-exist. So if people still prefer the vinyl one they can still get it.

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Honestly, I'd go for the injection SmD line. It is a hassle worrying about stains all the time. And this will be a great option to finally not have your girls get stained all the time and buying replacement bodies or working hard on removing the stains yourself.

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elianti

This is interesting to me, though I still prefer soft vinyl. I wonder what material the injection molded version will use for the outer shell. Maybe ABS?? More ABS dolls will be nice. Too bad about the seamlines; hopefully they won't be shiny too. At least Mirai looks pretty matte in that picture..

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Yukamina
Google translates the original tweet as

"they can only make thousands of plants per month, whereas Smapla can make tens of thousands of bodies per month"

so it's like 10 times more, not 100.

If the current production rate is not big enough and Danny did some math and research, then maybe it's possible to sell several times more SmartDolls.

Maybe there is a demand for licensed character models being produced "just now for promotion", not after year or half a year like at Volks

The Japanese tweet says tens of ten thousands (何十万), not tens of thousands. Japanese uses number increments like 10 100 1000 10000. So you can have ten 10000s. Which is just 100 000. I guess Google translate struggles with that

 

 

As for injection mold Smart Dolls... I don't know what to think. If the quality is nice but the price tag is lower I might actually be interested. It's hard to justify buying new dolls when they cost $700-1000, so I have to pass on a lot of dolls I like. I do like the color on the injection mold parts better than Volks or Smart Doll normal skin tones.

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belpita

I understand the reasoning behind this new option, I think. Although, is he intending to have all models available in both options? Or will there be a new line of dolls that are injection models?

 

For myself as a collector I think I will not be interested in the new line, even if it means not having to worry about stains. A visible line down the arms and legs will just be too aesthetically unpleasing to me.

 

ETA: Not to come off as snobbish or anything, but is it really good business sense to create a cheaper line of products for something that is known to be of high quality? Imagine if his father's shoe line were to have exact copies being sold at H&M, but in cheaper materials and sloppier finishes. Generally that type of thing makes a brand lose its "shine", if you will.

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elianti

Thinking about this more, I think I'm kinda excited about this now. xD One of the guys I want to shell always wears dark clothing so not needing to worry about stains at all would be nice. Even though I have a synthrapol substitute to wash out excess dye from doll clothes, that's still not a failsafe. ^^" I want him to have a different body from my first guy so I'm still waiting for a DD guy that looks more manly, but perhaps an injection molded guy from Danny will be 'different' enough. If they are offered at a significantly cheaper price point that'll even more attractive. ..that assumes that Danny makes guys though, and even then we don't know if he'll offer his 'limited' character dolls as injection versions. Or can regular vinyl heads be used on these bodies just fine? So curious!

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Misuka

Having that sort of machinery may open new options for making new size bodies or accessories. I really want him to start making 1/3 mech-girl tier stuff which this might aid in that happening.

 

Is this an area that hasn't really been fully explored in jointed toys (this size?)

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Daisy-chan
ETA: Not to come off as snobbish or anything, but is it really good business sense to create a cheaper line of products for something that is known to be of high quality? Imagine if his father's shoe line were to have exact copies being sold at H&M, but in cheaper materials and sloppier finishes. Generally that type of thing makes a brand lose its "shine", if you will.

 

Well I always saw SmartDolls as being marketed towards people new to the BJD/DD hobby, not being a status symbol or anything like his father's shoe line (or most fashion lines).

 

I know the price of dolls can turn a lot of newbies away, so having a cheaper alternative can bring in some new hobbyists and customers for Danny.

I see Resinsoul and Mirodoll being thrown around as good "starter dolls" for newbies in the resin side of the hobby, I assume Danny wants SmartDolls to be vinyl "starter dolls" with the injection models, while still providing the familiar higher quality vinyl models for doll collecting veterans or "snobbish" collectors who don't want seam lines.

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